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Author Topic: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back  (Read 6538 times)

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Offline acurajane

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OK this is supposed to be a Mess night. Usually Mess Night Marines dress in their best get in one place drink, and have dd's to take them home or wherever. Nope not this time. The Marines worked friday, humped ( hike ) a few miles, stay outside, which is no big deal for Marines, drink and hump back in the morning to go to the chow hall to have breakfast. Does anybody besides me see the danger and stupidity in this? And spouses who have kids and have jobs that depend on their Marine spouse to provide childcare while while non military spouse works were told too bad deal with it. This is dangerous and I hope that this gets called out by the news and higher up in the Marine Corps. I would be very upset if my spouse went, stayed sober, and got permantly hurt by a fellow Marine who was drunk and he had to be discharged for injuries. Yeah any other thoughts on this would be great. And wow I wish the news got ahold of this.

Offline tpgunbiz

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2009, 05:27:14 AM »
I can see your side of it but there is tradition in it. At least by the time they walk back the liquor will be out of their system. I can forsee alot of puking in their future...lol
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Offline Just_a_Biker

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2009, 06:04:05 AM »
OK... I posted a reply and now it's gone... Rick, are you sensoring me again?
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. Cicero - 55 BC, Rome

Offline Lepard LLC

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2009, 06:26:48 AM »
No, it is probably just really smoky where you are at.. LOL

 
 
OK... I posted a reply and now it's gone... Rick, are you sensoring me again?

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2009, 11:33:42 AM »
Hi, Acura.

Since you asked if "the news" could get involved in this, let me give an outline of one of two things that will probably have to happen before reporters are willing to touch this one.

First, if there is some sort of crime committed, I'm all over military personnel (or anyone else, for that matter) who drink and drive, or who get drunk and commit some other sort of crime. But there's no crime in drinking and walking. Stupidity is not always illegal, and unfortunately, that sometimes means people keep being stupid until their luck runs out and someone gets hurt by the consequences of stupid behavior. Remember Tailhook? That's what happens when a culture of stupidity blows up in the face of uniformed personnel.

Second, just because something is legal doesn't mean it is a good idea. If the chain of command decides to put the message out to stop this kind of dumb activity, I'll be all over it. If there is a military spouse (especially someone in a position of some level of authority) who wants to go on the record, with a name, and complain that the chain of command should be doing something, I am probably going to follow up depending on the circumstances. There's a big difference between one angry wife calling a reporter and a dozen angry wives who speak to me off-the-record and designate one person or a smaller group of people to speak for them on-the-record.

Another thing to be aware of -- the Marine Times just announced this week that the Marine Corps Detachment will be getting a new commander soon, and based on the colonel's name, the new commander appears to be female. I've spent enough time dealing with female senior officers, most of whom are old enough to remember when the military was still a "good old boys club," to know that in many cases, female senior leaders come in with a goal of cleaning up garbage and listening to wives who are legitimately upset about a culture of bad boy behavior that does nothing to help the military and a lot to hurt family life.

I don't know the current Marine Corps detachment commander and I have no agenda for or against him. I do believe, without knowing anything about the incoming detachment commander except her name, that there might be a receptive ear on the way. Of course, it's quite possible there's a receptive ear in the current detachment commander and all somebody needs to do is act as a group of wives to call the problem to his attention.
 
A final point -- for those who remember the military in the old days when drunkenness was expected and in some units became virtually mandatory, it has been made quite clear to me in recent months that Fort Leonard Wood's senior leaders take drunk driving and other alcohol-related problems very, very, very seriously and want to get them stopped. There are people at the highest levels of Fort Leonard Wood's leadership who have gotten really mad when they keep seeing my photos of rolled-over cars driven by drunk FLW personnel. And it's not me they're mad at.
 
Consider the possibilty that this may be a well-intentioned but perhaps not well-executed attempt to prevent drunk driving. I see little good that can come of large numbers of military members stumbling around half-drunk in the middle of the night. However, somebody may have thought it's a better idea than dozens of designated drivers -- not all of whom will be stone-cold sober -- coming back from a party and even one of them crashing their car or getting arrested for DWI.

OK this is supposed to be a Mess night. Usually Mess Night Marines dress in their best get in one place drink, and have dd's to take them home or wherever. Nope not this time. The Marines worked friday, humped ( hike ) a few miles, stay outside, which is no big deal for Marines, drink and hump back in the morning to go to the chow hall to have breakfast. Does anybody besides me see the danger and stupidity in this? And spouses who have kids and have jobs that depend on their Marine spouse to provide childcare while while non military spouse works were told too bad deal with it. This is dangerous and I hope that this gets called out by the news and higher up in the Marine Corps. I would be very upset if my spouse went, stayed sober, and got permantly hurt by a fellow Marine who was drunk and he had to be discharged for injuries. Yeah any other thoughts on this would be great. And wow I wish the news got ahold of this.
Darrell Todd Maurina
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Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2009, 11:37:13 AM »
OK this is supposed to be a Mess night. Usually Mess Night Marines dress in their best get in one place drink, and have dd's to take them home or wherever. Nope not this time. The Marines worked friday, humped ( hike ) a few miles, stay outside, which is no big deal for Marines, drink and hump back in the morning to go to the chow hall to have breakfast. Does anybody besides me see the danger and stupidity in this? And spouses who have kids and have jobs that depend on their Marine spouse to provide childcare while while non military spouse works were told too bad deal with it. This is dangerous and I hope that this gets called out by the news and higher up in the Marine Corps. I would be very upset if my spouse went, stayed sober, and got permantly hurt by a fellow Marine who was drunk and he had to be discharged for injuries. Yeah any other thoughts on this would be great. And wow I wish the news got ahold of this.

Jane, this is "A walk in the park" compared to years ago.  Let them go, and leave it alone.  We all had the opportunity to let loose, be stupid, etc. but were ALWAYS held accountable for our actions.  Let the P/C stuff go because all our military folks are under stress and over deployed these days..............

Offline acurajane

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2009, 01:14:37 PM »
Thanks all and I understand its tradition and know that there is no crime in drinking and walking. As a former female Marine myself, Hey I have done that. LOL . I do know the CO and he is a great Marine as well as a man. I don't personally agree of how this event was carried out. This is a Marine school house and I am wondering what type of message this will sent to the baby Marines here. Agan thank you all.

Offline Just_a_Biker

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2009, 06:39:25 AM »
A Field Mess Night is a very honorable tradition, NOT the drunken debauchery fest you're trying to describe it as.  If you've never experienced a Mess Night in the field, then you are truly missing one of the best traditions in the US Marine Corps, IMO.
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. Cicero - 55 BC, Rome

Offline blissfullybusy

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2009, 02:21:20 PM »
Ok let me preface this by saying, I'm not in the military and have no military connection or knowledge so if my following comment sounds ignorant you'll know why....

I don't understand why a night of drinking is a tradition.  I guess I look at those men and women, who for religious purposes or simple moral standing, think that getting drunk and out of your mind is wrong. Let alone making a celebration of it.  Is this something they are forced into doing or going on?  Do they have an option to not participate?  I really don't understand it that's why I ask the question.
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Offline sapperwife1976

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2009, 02:51:36 PM »
Sounds like some are trying to overanalyze the whole situation. 
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Offline What_The?

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2009, 03:15:45 PM »
This sounds just like fraternities rationalizing the hazing deaths of minors as "tradition."

All it takes is one.

Maybe a new tradition involving drinking Gatorade after a long hike should be implemented.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline Just_a_Biker

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2009, 03:32:22 PM »
SHUT UP AND LEAVE THIS ALONE!!!  This is a TRADITION, NOT a drunk fest!  It has nothing to do with mass, or forced, consumption of alcohol, but rather ESPRIT DE CORPS.  If you're not a US Marine, or if you haven't been to a Mess Night in the field, I can understand how you may not understand, but don't go raising the red flag and calling the Mothers of America & AP to jump on this like it's the worst thing since the pinning of jump wings...  Give it a rest already!
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. Cicero - 55 BC, Rome

Offline What_The?

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2009, 03:48:22 PM »
SHUT UP AND LEAVE THIS ALONE!!!  This is a TRADITION, NOT a drunk fest!  It has nothing to do with mass, or forced, consumption of alcohol, but rather ESPRIT DE CORPS.  If you're not a US Marine, or if you haven't been to a Mess Night in the field, I can understand how you may not understand, but don't go raising the red flag and calling the Mothers of America & AP to jump on this like it's the worst thing since the pinning of jump wings...  Give it a rest already!

Shut up and leave it alone?

Screw you dude, you ain't God of the Universe.

How about I make it worse?

Are they all at least 21?



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Offline Just_a_Biker

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2009, 04:23:29 PM »

Screw you dude, you ain't God of the Universe.


You are absolutely correct, but at least I know what I'm talking about... Unlike you, who's just trying to stir up $#!+ about something that you don't have a clue about.  If you're trying to understand then find yourself a Marine who's been to a Mess Night in the field and see if they'll share their experiences with you.  If you're just trying to stir the pot then do us all a favor and move on...  As I said before (but you chose to ignore) there is no requirement for consumption of alcohol; even the Marine Corps has evolved, so give it a rest and chalk it up to an experience that you don't understand because you've never had the opportunity to participate.
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. Cicero - 55 BC, Rome

Offline Geezer Glide Taz

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2009, 05:10:55 PM »
This is a team building exercises, nothing more. Alcohol is allowed but not mandatory, so it is not a drunk fest, it is how personnel learn to become teams. There are several different versions of this in every branch. If you have never had to rely upon your battle buddie to save your life, you will not understand the importance of traditions like this to create a team work mentality amongst military members. What is done now is mild compared to days of old. Has absolutely nothing to do with hazing, or any frat party.
It is little things like this that will get a soldier's or a Marines head right to be able to cope with what they have to deal with in combat, and to make the transition from civilian life of only having to rely upon himself and to only be responsible for him self, to know how and to automatically accept the responsibility of watching out for others on the team.
If you can't see that, or don't understand, you were never there, and you won't ever understand, and that is OK, so just let it be
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Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2009, 07:52:39 PM »
OK, I think I've heard enough about this now to believe there's nothing going on that warrants news media attention, unless either a number of military wives get together and complain as a group or something really bad happens with lots of drunk Marines walking around in the middle of the night.
 
I have virtually zero tolerance for events that push alcohol on people and are either mandatory or virtually mandatory based on peer pressure. That used to be a major problem in the military, but most of the problem has long ago been cleaned up. Hints of that, however, get my radar going -- and much more importantly, they also get the attention of senior leaders wearing birds and stars.
 
I wasn't there, I don't know what happened, but it certainly looks like there is an important second side to this story. It makes a big difference to me when law enforcement officers defend an event if I know those same officers have no tolerance for drunk driving.
 
Let's all either back off or get a better explanation of what happens at this field event. Drinking is legal, and even though I believe drunkenness is sinful and virtually any use of alcohol is extremely stupid (we don't need to take a little wine for our health; we've got sanitary water systems and chlorine does a better job than alcohol of killing bacteria), as long as alcohol is not pushed on people or served to minors, I don't think we've got a legitimate complaint about this event based on what has been said -- so far.
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Offline Coyote

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2009, 08:16:39 PM »
I've found that drunk Marines can do the two-step quite well...indeed.
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Offline demo.dave

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2009, 08:57:05 PM »
No offense to anyone on this thread...but this whole thread is stupid. If its been going on for this many years and not stopped(which im sure we arent the only ones that know about it) then i dont see where the problem is. Then to complain because some of them drink and someone doesnt like alcohol...thats just lame. If its not hurting anyone(and i dont wanna hear the words so far...i could get shot at work before i even finish this and im not doing anything stupid) then let it be.

Just my .02







Offline Rainbow

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2009, 10:01:27 PM »
 :deadhorse: and here we go again.....

Offline Rainbow

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2009, 10:02:06 PM »
somebody plz give me some karma so some of them 6's are changed. :th_thmuwahaha-1:

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2009, 10:07:31 PM »
No offense to anyone on this thread...but this whole thread is stupid. If its been going on for this many years and not stopped(which im sure we arent the only ones that know about it) then i dont see where the problem is. Then to complain because some of them drink and someone doesnt like alcohol...thats just lame. If its not hurting anyone(and i dont wanna hear the words so far...i could get shot at work before i even finish this and im not doing anything stupid) then let it be. Just my .02

Dave, first off, you have every right to your opinion. This is intended as an explanation of why I have such strong feelings on this subject, not an attack on you or anyone else who has posted on this thread so far.

I don't know what your military background (or family background) may be, but if your main familiarity with the Army is in the last decade or so, you may not be aware that there used to be really, really serious problems with alcohol in the Armed Forces.

Hard drinking and hard living used to be viewed as the manly thing to do -- and not just in the military.
 
Even in my own business, my mother remembers the days of drunken "grassers" in journalism school when students would pay a farmer to have an alcohol-sodden party after dark in the grass far away from the roads in his fields -- and this was way back in the 1950s when even people 21 or older were strictly barred by Michigan State University from drinking anywhere within 200 miles of campus, even on school breaks, with immediate explusion as the standard penalty. And for those who were in the working press, the stories about the bottles of whisky, Scotch, or vodka in the top drawers of the newsroom desks were no exaggerations. "Drunken sailors" may have gotten a lot of bad press, but I think the journalism profession virtually ran on alcohol all the way back to the end of the 1800s.
 
Fortunately, a lot of that has changed. I'm old enough to remember the beginning of the hard fight by groups like Mothers Against Drunk Driving to convince the American public that crashes caused by driving while intoxicated weren't just accidents -- they were nothing less than vehicular manslaughter, and needed to be treated as such.

It took longer to convince the military than some other segments of society that it's not manly but rather stupid to be drunk behind the wheel, and that a "man who can hold his liquor" is likely to be a man with an alcohol problem rather than a model to be followed. But at this point, there's been a radical change from the way the Army was during Korea and Vietnam on alcohol issues, and that is a very good thing.

People have the right to be stupid in their off-time and I don't want to deny that. But there was a day that the military was a major factor introducing young people to alcohol abuse. That was a very bad thing, and there are a lot of people who get upset when they see things that remind them of the "bad old days."
Darrell Todd Maurina
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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2009, 10:09:02 PM »
somebody plz give me some karma so some of them 6's are changed. :th_thmuwahaha-1:
I think all them 6's look good on you :{:{:
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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2009, 10:24:48 PM »
 :th_thbeer1-1: sure. why not?

Offline demo.dave

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2009, 10:37:44 PM »
Well that wasnt personal on anyone here either. My family has had members in every branch fight in about ever war. I just dont like people getting on here and bashing an event that has been going on for a long time now. Its not hurting anyone or else it would have been stopped a long time ago.

I agree with you on the drinkin thing though. Im against drinking and driving and alcoholism.







Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2009, 11:03:15 PM »
:th_thbeer1-1: sure. why not?


Wait, I'll join you  (((**&^^% (((**&^^% (((**&^^%   Ahhhhhhh a cold frosty tall one. Hits the spot
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline blissfullybusy

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2009, 12:21:40 AM »
This is a team building exercises, nothing more. Alcohol is allowed but not mandatory, so it is not a drunk fest, it is how personnel learn to become teams. There are several different versions of this in every branch. If you have never had to rely upon your battle buddie to save your life, you will not understand the importance of traditions like this to create a team work mentality amongst military members. What is done now is mild compared to days of old. Has absolutely nothing to do with hazing, or any frat party.
It is little things like this that will get a soldier's or a Marines head right to be able to cope with what they have to deal with in combat, and to make the transition from civilian life of only having to rely upon himself and to only be responsible for him self, to know how and to automatically accept the responsibility of watching out for others on the team.
If you can't see that, or don't understand, you were never there, and you won't ever understand, and that is OK, so just let it be

Ok that's the answer I was looking for.  So it's more of a leisurely morale building thing.  I guess I had a hazing picture in my head. haha I think there are worse things that could be done.  It honestly sounds like any deer camp my hubby's gone too. haha
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Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2009, 02:19:11 AM »
Dave, first off, you have every right to your opinion. This is intended as an explanation of why I have such strong feelings on this subject, not an attack on you or anyone else who has posted on this thread so far.

I don't know what your military background (or family background) may be, but if your main familiarity with the Army is in the last decade or so, you may not be aware that there used to be really, really serious problems with alcohol in the Armed Forces.

Hard drinking and hard living used to be viewed as the manly thing to do -- and not just in the military.
 
Even in my own business, my mother remembers the days of drunken "grassers" in journalism school when students would pay a farmer to have an alcohol-sodden party after dark in the grass far away from the roads in his fields -- and this was way back in the 1950s when even people 21 or older were strictly barred by Michigan State University from drinking anywhere within 200 miles of campus, even on school breaks, with immediate explusion as the standard penalty. And for those who were in the working press, the stories about the bottles of whisky, Scotch, or vodka in the top drawers of the newsroom desks were no exaggerations. "Drunken sailors" may have gotten a lot of bad press, but I think the journalism profession virtually ran on alcohol all the way back to the end of the 1800s.
 
Fortunately, a lot of that has changed. I'm old enough to remember the beginning of the hard fight by groups like Mothers Against Drunk Driving to convince the American public that crashes caused by driving while intoxicated weren't just accidents -- they were nothing less than vehicular manslaughter, and needed to be treated as such.

It took longer to convince the military than some other segments of society that it's not manly but rather stupid to be drunk behind the wheel, and that a "man who can hold his liquor" is likely to be a man with an alcohol problem rather than a model to be followed. But at this point, there's been a radical change from the way the Army was during Korea and Vietnam on alcohol issues, and that is a very good thing.

People have the right to be stupid in their off-time and I don't want to deny that. But there was a day that the military was a major factor introducing young people to alcohol abuse. That was a very bad thing, and there are a lot of people who get upset when they see things that remind them of the "bad old days."

This is nothing Darrell............  You should have been at my 30th high school reunion at Cardwell's in Clayton Saturday night.  Imagine about 400 middle age folks getting drink as a skunk and acting "exactly" like they did as teens back in 79............
 
I've experienced about a dozen mess nights in the Marine Corps and all were mild compared to this reunion.

Offline Just_a_Biker

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2009, 03:25:58 AM »

This is nothing Darrell............  You should have been at my 30th high school reunion at Cardwell's in Clayton Saturday night.  Imagine about 400 middle age folks getting drink as a skunk and acting "exactly" like they did as teens back in 79............
 
I've experienced about a dozen mess nights in the Marine Corps and all were mild compared to this reunion.

I concur.  Mess Nights are fun and full of tradition and badgering.  Now, you want to see some wild & crazy stuff, come to a bike rally... (I've heard their quite the hoot) ;)
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. Cicero - 55 BC, Rome

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Marines at Ft. Wood work,hike, get drunk all night and hike back
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2009, 04:47:39 AM »
This is nothing Darrell............  You should have been at my 30th high school reunion at Cardwell's in Clayton Saturday night.  Imagine about 400 middle age folks getting drink as a skunk and acting "exactly" like they did as teens back in 79............  I've experienced about a dozen mess nights in the Marine Corps and all were mild compared to this reunion.

Oh, I could say a lot more. Let's just say it is sometimes useful to be the designated driver for drunk people at a convention who say more to a reporter drunk than they would sober. I stay far away from alcohol when I can, but I've been at far too many alcohol-drenched events, either because I had to go for news coverage reasons or because I was dragged someplace I didn't want to go and decided to put up with the place to keep some friends from killing themselves behind the wheel.

The military is not the problem here -- it's a culture of glorification of alcohol that now, fortunately, is a lot less accepted than it once was. There is absolutely nothing manly about competing to see who can drink someone else under the table, and absolutely nothing feminist about women competing to outdo the guys in that same drunken game.

I attended the sentencing hearing today of an older man (mid-60s) with a literally spotless criminal record -- not even a traffic ticket -- who killed a young woman and severely injured a young man while under the influence. I have zero tolerance for that kind of behavior, and very little tolerance for the activities that put people down the path to behaving that way.

I don't care whether the weapon is gun, a knife, or a car -- if it's in the hands of a drunk, it's in the hands of someone who no longer is in full control of himself and it is potentially a lethal weapon. The problem with a multi-thousand-pound hunk of metal hurtling down the highway is that somebody too drunk to aim a gun correctly is much more able to kill someone with his car.
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