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Author Topic: Don't Ask-Don't Tell  (Read 15510 times)

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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2009, 02:29:02 PM »

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Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2009, 02:29:40 PM »
I'm glad you modified your other comments to reflect that.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2009, 02:38:42 PM »
We used another term.  REMF.  And I won't bother to spell that one out in this open forum, but the first two words are Rear Echelon.  Preacher, I stand corrected.  You have at least been exposed to the military over a period of time.

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2009, 02:39:46 PM »
BTW there is a difference between a grunt and a Ranger,

Yes, but they are often at the same posts. I would rather get in a fight with 2 grunts than get in a fight with 1 Ranger. Though I would rather be in a bar filled with Rangers than a bar filled with grunts. Rangers are more disciplined.
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2009, 02:50:35 PM »
Preacher, you seem to think being in the infantry is all about going to bars and fights.

Come on now. Be honest. You were in the infantry. You had to have at least witnessed some crazy bar fights. I mean over the top, riot police show up type bar fights. You had to have. Unless you didn't go to the bars with your boys. Even then, you had to have heard about some crazy ones.
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Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2009, 02:51:02 PM »
Preach, I have lived my entire adult life around the military, married to a couple military men, one a drill sargent the other an engineer officer, plus working for and retiring from civil service.  I would never compare my knowledge of the military or what they have to deal with with someone who has been there.  Been to Viet Nam, Korea, Dessert Storm, Dessert Shield, Afghanistan, went through basic training etc.  How dare you!!!

So you had a father who was a drill sargeant, did you have to go out to the firing range or the hand grenade range with him, did you have the knowledge that every young man or woman you trained, you were training them as if their life depended on what you taught them.  Did you ever go sleep out in the field with a couple hundred other soldiers for a week in the cold.  I'm not ex military but I take offense for them that you would compare your experience in sitting at home in your nice warm house with your food prepared for you with theirs because your father was in the military.
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2009, 03:00:44 PM »
Been to Viet Nam, Korea, Dessert Storm, Dessert Shield, Afghanistan, went through basic training etc.  How dare you!!!

Sure I haven't been to war, but I did watch Saving Private Ryan while I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
 
I don't pretend to know what going to war is like. How could I? I can try to understand by listening to my friends and family tell me what they went through, but it isn't the same. I understand that, but I am not talking about war. I am talking about regular day to day miltary sh*t. I am talking about military policy and military mentality. You don't have to have served or been to war to understand that aspect of the military.
 
I think the people in the military will be professional enough to deal with homosexuals serving openly in the military. Everyone else seems to think it will adversely effect the military. I think it will be good for society.
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Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2009, 03:10:38 PM »
But my point was, unless you have been through or experienced the things that most military people have experienced, which has had an effect on their mental status, their thought processing, then you can't understand why they do certain things or act certain ways.  You and I can work with, live with and love homosexual people not having a problem at all, but If you have ever been in a situation where someones homosexuality effected the outcome of a situation your opinion of gay people might be slightly askew and may cause some problems.
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2009, 03:13:47 PM »
So you had a father who was a drill sargeant, did you have to go out to the firing range or the hand grenade range with him

Wow. Really? You must have not been a military brat. I have been to every range my dad worked at. I have been to most of the ranges my friend's parents worked at. It's just something you do as a child. You see what your parents do, and you learn a little about them. I have always been very proud of my father. I understand what he does. He and I are completely different people, but I love and respect everything about him. Especially his service to our country.
 
 
I'm not ex military but I take offense for them that you would compare your experience in sitting at home in your nice warm house with your food prepared for you with theirs because your father was in the military.

We have already determined that your opinion doesn't count on this thread. Don't feel bad, neither does mine. You can't possibly really be offended without having served yourself. You don't know what it's like.
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2009, 03:16:57 PM »
But my point was, unless you have been through or experienced the things that most military people have experienced, which has had an effect on their mental status, their thought processing, then you can't understand why they do certain things or act certain ways.  You and I can work with, live with and love homosexual people not having a problem at all, but If you have ever been in a situation where someones homosexuality effected the outcome of a situation your opinion of gay people might be slightly askew and may cause some problems.

How would they know how it will effect the military? They haven't been in with openly gay soldiers. They can't have the thought process either then. Nobody in America is qualified under your standards to have an opinion about whether gay people should be allowed to openly serve. Everyone is just speculating on here.
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Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2009, 03:17:48 PM »
Yes but does your knowledge of the "military mentality" reflect your belief that "the military will be professional enough to deal with homosexuals serving openly in the military"?

Offline Coyote

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2009, 03:22:34 PM »
Please define "openly."
 

How would they know how it will effect the military? They haven't been in with openly gay soldiers. They can't have the thought process either then. Nobody in America is qualified under your standards to have an opinion about whether gay people should be allowed to openly serve. Everyone is just speculating on here.
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Offline ex-ed

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2009, 03:27:28 PM »
Oh man am I so disappointed, I waited 6 hrs. for a responce and all you could come up with is NayNard ??
How about Nay'NERD' Or may'nerd' or turd.
Come on Dan i deserve more effort don't I :crying:   :crying:
Dang it I get no disrespect >:D ***(**&

Looking for disrespect? Go talk to your kids!  :th_thicon_super:
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Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2009, 03:28:20 PM »
Going on the firing range with your dad is not exactly experiencing it from his point of view.  He had responsibility, all you had to do was "look cute" and oh yeah, stay out of the line of fire. :)
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!

Offline Coyote

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2009, 03:31:31 PM »
I bet he has a bunch of cammys for when he wants to "play like."
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2009, 03:33:57 PM »
Whether "openly gay" as you say or not, I think the men and women in the military know who is or isn't gay without them having to "ask or be told."  And I'm sure most of them don't have a problem with it unless something happens that changes their opinion of one gay soldier, then just like if you are white and have a bad experience with one black person or if you are black and have a bad experience with one white person, the whole gay population is your enemy.
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!

Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2009, 03:36:10 PM »
Hey Preach, let me ask this once again:

Does your knowledge of the "military mentality" reflect your belief that "the military will be professional enough to deal with homosexuals serving openly in the military"?

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2009, 03:36:43 PM »
Going on the firing range with your dad is not exactly experiencing it from his point of view.  He had responsibility, all you had to do was "look cute" and oh yeah, stay out of the line of fire. :)

Hey. You're the one who mentioned going to ranges. I just think it is funny that you assume I didn't. Regardless, you can get an understanding of people's responsibilities by observing them performing their duties. You don't have to have been a president to understand the responsibilities Obama is about to face. Do you?
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #78 on: January 16, 2009, 03:43:42 PM »
Hey Preach, let me ask this once again:

Does your knowledge of the "military mentality" reflect your belief that "the military will be professional enough to deal with homosexuals serving openly in the military"?

It is my belief that the United States military can adapt to anything thrown at them. It is my belief that people can change. Yes, an openly gay grunt is going to cause some problems in the beginning, but your perception of people changes once you have served with them. It's kind of difficult to hate on somebody you know has your six. A few bar fights can change some people's homophobia. If your gay battle buddy beat the crap out of some guy for you, you are probably going to be a little less homophobic. You can see the same thing in race relations. Many people go in the military racist, and come out not so racist.
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #79 on: January 16, 2009, 03:46:21 PM »
I bet he has a bunch of cammys for when he wants to "play like."

Who didn't? Most of us Army brats wanted to be exactly like our fathers when we were younger. Some of us still do.
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Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2009, 03:47:57 PM »
The term "battle buddy" isn't used in all service branches but I appreciate your response.  I wasn't trying to hang you up either.

Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2009, 03:48:36 PM »

Hey. You're the one who mentioned going to ranges. I just think it is funny that you assume I didn't. Regardless, you can get an understanding of people's responsibilities by observing them performing their duties. You don't have to have been a president to understand the responsibilities Obama is about to face. Do you?

OH YES YOU DO!   No one knows the stess and responsibility that goes along with being president except for the 43 men who have already gone through it.  You might think you know, but then you think you know everything, but believe me you and I don't have a clue what goes through their heads and what they are thinking and the sleepless nights, and the worries.  You have so much growing up to do.
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2009, 03:50:06 PM »
Please define "openly."

"Openly". Awarded the same rights as their heterosexual counterparts. Basically they should be allowed to have homosexual "barracks bunnies", and then have homosexual spouses when they mature a little.
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Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2009, 03:51:12 PM »
Preach, I do respect your honesty, especially when most opinions aren't in your favor regarding this topic; "mine included".

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2009, 03:55:49 PM »

OH YES YOU DO!   No one knows the stess and responsibility that goes along with being president except for the 43 men who have already gone through it.  You might think you know, but then you think you know everything, but believe me you and I don't have a clue what goes through their heads and what they are thinking and the sleepless nights, and the worries.  You have so much growing up to do.

Or you need to try being more realistic. If you are only allowed to have opinions about things you have experienced, none of us would be allowed to have any opinions. You don't have to do something to have a decent understanding of it. One can exercise the use of their imagination from time to time, and relate possible feelings with similar experiences in their own life.
 
You might not understand what it's like to bury your child, but you could imagine that it is an exponentially greater sadness than when your family dog died. You can have empathy for someone through your own traumatic experiences.
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Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2009, 04:05:30 PM »
You can definately have your opinion, but your opinion stated that you thought you knew the military lifestyle just because you were a dependent.  My opinion is, you do not and cannot know until you experience it, just like the death of a child.  You cannot know how you will act until it happens to you.  Let me know what you think about military lifestyle after you enlist and come back from active duty.  And let me know what the president has to go through after your term is up.
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Offline matrsnot

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #86 on: January 16, 2009, 04:13:54 PM »
Preacher we will have to agree to disagree on this subject.  We will not see eye to eye.  YOu make some points, but the mentality will be tough on those first coming out in th emilitary.  Very rough and tough I am afraid.  I agree with you about the Presidency and the stress.  Not one of them has come out without gray hair, except those murdered in office.  He also does not understand the stress of combat or the need for absolute team work in completing the mission.  He does not understand the pride these men and women have either.  It will be interesting to see if he denigrates the military like Clinton did.

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #87 on: January 16, 2009, 04:15:32 PM »
your opinion stated that you thought you knew the military lifestyle just because you were a dependent.  My opinion is, you do not and cannot know until you experience it,

I am willing to bet that if you went on post and said that to some military wives, you would get an earfull. Seriously, how can you disrespect the women and men who stand by their spouse soldiers when they go to war? The military effects everyone in the immediate family of the soldier. It can't be avoided.
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #88 on: January 16, 2009, 04:27:22 PM »
I agree with you about the Presidency and the stress.  Not one of them has come out without gray hair, except those murdered in office.  He also does not understand the stress of combat or the need for absolute team work in completing the mission.  He does not understand the pride these men and women have either.  It will be interesting to see if he denigrates the military like Clinton did.

I am sure he understands the concept of teamwork. He didn't live under a rock his whole life.
 
And it is impossible to not know the pride our servicemembers have. They exude it every day. He has witnessed it. He knows.
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Offline fish

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Re: Don't Ask-Don't Tell
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2009, 04:37:45 PM »
he will quickly learn more of what the military thinks of him. He may have gooten a hint at the dining hall he was at. nothing was wrong with the marines actions,but I am guessing W will always get a much better response when ever he is around military folks. clinton was not liked or respected by much of the military.