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Author Topic: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist  (Read 2523 times)

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Offline shadylane

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Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« on: July 27, 2009, 02:26:45 AM »

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WASHINGTON — Top Bush administration officials in 2002 debated testing the Constitution by sending American troops into the suburbs of Buffalo to arrest a group of men suspected of plotting with Al Qaeda, according to former administration officials.
Some of the advisers to President George W. Bush, including Vice President Dick Cheney, argued that a president had the power to use the military on domestic soil to sweep up the terrorism suspects, who came to be known as the Lackawanna Six, and declare them enemy combatants.
Mr. Bush ultimately decided against the proposal to use military force.
A decision to dispatch troops into the streets to make arrests has few precedents in American history, as both the Constitution and subsequent laws restrict the military from being used to conduct domestic raids and seize property.
The Fourth Amendment bans “unreasonable” searches and seizures without probable cause. And the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 generally prohibits the military from acting in a law enforcement capacity.
In the discussions, Mr. Cheney and others cited an Oct. 23, 2001, memorandum from the Justice Department that, using a broad interpretation of presidential authority, argued that the domestic use of the military against Al Qaeda would be legal because it served a national security, rather than a law enforcement, purpose.
“The president has ample constitutional and statutory authority to deploy the military against international or foreign terrorists operating within the United States,” the memorandum said.
The memorandum — written by the lawyers John C. Yoo and Robert J. Delahunty — was directed to Alberto R. Gonzales, then the White House counsel, who had asked the department about a president’s authority to use the military to combat terrorist activities in the United States.
The memorandum was declassified in March. But the White House debate about the Lackawanna group is the first evidence that top American officials, after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, actually considered using the document to justify deploying the military into an American town to make arrests.
Most former officials interviewed for this article spoke only on the condition of anonymity because the deliberations about the case involved classified information. They agreed to talk about the internal discussions only after the memorandum was released earlier this year.
New information has recently emerged about the deliberations and divisions in the administration over some of the most controversial policies after the Sept. 11 attacks, like the decision to use brutal interrogation methods on Qaeda detainees.
Former officials in the administration said this debate was not as bitter as others during Mr. Bush’s first term. The discussions did not proceed far enough to put military units on alert.
Still, at least one high-level meeting was convened to debate the issue, at which several top Bush aides argued firmly against the proposal to use the military, advanced by Mr. Cheney, his legal adviser David S. Addington and some senior Defense Department officials.
Among those in opposition were Condoleezza Rice, then the national security adviser; John B. Bellinger III, the top lawyer at the National Security Council; Robert S. Mueller III, the director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation; and Michael Chertoff, then the head of the Justice Department’s criminal division.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline fish

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2009, 02:54:00 AM »
It would seem this discussion was inevitable. After 9/11 it is a new ball game. I am glad it was discussed and not followed through with action. The fbi and local law enforcement with assistance from the military(if asked) would have been sufficient. W was right to consider using the military. His primary job was to protect us and he did it well. The fact that he decided against using the military shows there was a good discussion first.

Offline CriTTer

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2009, 03:02:26 AM »
It would seem this discussion was inevitable. After 9/11 it is a new ball game. I am glad it was discussed and not followed through with action. The fbi and local law enforcement with assistance from the military(if asked) would have been sufficient. W was right to consider using the military. His primary job was to protect us and he did it well. The fact that he decided against using the military shows there was a good discussion first.
  W never should of thought about something that is written in the constitution as WRONG and never should ever be done....but since he is a rep. and your hero, in your eyes it must be ok,,  If it was prez Obama you would be screaming for his head

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2009, 10:24:44 AM »
Look up Bonus Soldiers.  It would not have been the first time.  And then the military was used against Americans.  Proposals are brought to the President for consideration.  Bush decided against it and rightfully so.  Wonder what the current President will do when we are attacked.

Offline David Day

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2009, 10:27:12 AM »
I just hope that those in power now consider your words Critter when it comes to the 2nd Amendment.  It is very clear and also written in the Constitution.

As far as thoughts and discussions, I am betting most of us would be shocked at some of the discussions at the national level in many departments and elected offices, of BOTH parties.  I don't know that I think discussions are all that bad, action can be.  Sometimes, at least at the level I am, discussions lead to better and stronger resolutions as to why something is a bad idea.

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Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2009, 03:54:37 PM »
If they were an "enemy" the use of military is not out of the question and should be considered.

I seem to remember taking an oath a few times that mentioned something about "enemies, foreign and domestic"

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2009, 07:55:20 PM »
Sometimes, it is difficult to figure out who the true enemies are.  Like many in congress perhaps?  Just because I may consider someone an enemy, does not mean someone will not consider them as such.  So just WHO deicdes whcih are enemies and which are not?  Please don't tell me it is the current government.  They couldn't find their asses with a compass, map and both hands.

Offline What_The?

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 05:04:54 PM »
Sometimes, it is difficult to figure out who the true enemies are.  Like many in congress perhaps?  Just because I may consider someone an enemy, does not mean someone will not consider them as such.  So just WHO deicdes whcih are enemies and which are not?  Please don't tell me it is the current government.  They couldn't find their asses with a compass, map and both hands.

We're supposed to trust YOUR decisions on who is an enemy or not, a guy who advocates shooting active duty reservists asking for ID while responding to a mass shooting spree crisis in Alabama?
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 07:02:04 PM »
It is called posse comitatus.  My decisions are my own.  I don't care whether or not you agree.  BTW, please read the thread again and show us all where I said I would SHOOT these unauthorized MPs.  there was and is no martial law and the incident was already over when they took to the roads.  I DID day I would treat them as carjackers.  That does not mean I would have to shoot them.  They have no right to stop anyone or check any ID once they leave that military reservation.  I did say here that congress has not the faintest idea of who our enemies are.  They are nincompoops to say the least.  I am trying to stay on a medial plane here, but you always find some way to get off the subject and inject invective that is not called for.  Tired of the sniveling you put forth.  I believe I pointed out that soldiers were used against American Citizens in the past.  You seem to have missed that little tidbit.  When you have no facts, you come up with your emotions.

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 11:22:33 PM »
Ok.  How would you treat a carjacker?

I DID day I would treat them as carjackers.  That does not mean I would have to shoot them.  They have no right to stop anyone or check any ID once they leave that military reservation.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2009, 12:34:17 AM »
Most likely step on the gas and leave them in the dust.  Shooting is a last resort and only if they are a threat to me or mine.

Offline CriTTer

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2009, 01:27:10 AM »
I remember a GOP prez a few years back who thought the National Guard was a good idea to handle who they must of thought were "enemies" of our country.....we ended up with 4 dead college kids in ohio.   
 
Between the FBI local and state law inforcement i see no reason to put the army in the streets unless there are very large groups "armies" in our streets attacking us.  Not just for a small group of spineless thugs who we been watching from a distance to begin with

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2009, 02:17:08 AM »
Well, consider them a threat because a lot of the time... they just shoot you and throw your ass out in the street and drive away.

Most likely step on the gas and leave them in the dust.  Shooting is a last resort and only if they are a threat to me or mine.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2009, 08:15:32 AM »
Not gonna bite DN.  A shooting solution is the last solution.  I am not the wild man you perceive.  Besides, the car I drive is not worth carjacking in the first place.

Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2009, 01:10:37 PM »
The government is obviously still checking out all of us.  Just heard this morning that a man in NC was arrested as a terrorist.  This is a white man, looks like many of the people I see around here every day, yet he allegedly was planning a terror attack on America.  I say stop them before they do harm to me or my loved ones.  As long as you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear.
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Offline Coyote

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2009, 01:16:27 PM »
I saw that...so strange.  What is a 19 year old doing going to the Middle East to train for a jihad??  So now it's 20 years later and he's still up to his tricks and recruiting others to work with him on it.  What a screwball.

The government is obviously still checking out all of us.  Just heard this morning that a man in NC was arrested as a terrorist.  This is a white man, looks like many of the people I see around here every day, yet he allegedly was planning a terror attack on America.  I say stop them before they do harm to me or my loved ones.  As long as you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear.
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Offline Geezer Glide Taz

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Re: Bush considered using military against domestic terrorist
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2009, 01:55:25 PM »
See, you democrats are just as bad as the Republican Birthers. You are actually making a big issue out of the PAST president had a meeting with senior personnel to determine what was the best way to handle possible domestic terrorist cells in the US. One of the Courses of Actions out of many I can guarantee was to utilize the military. The worked out the best COA and utilized federal and local law enforcement. So, please tell me where there was a problem. Sounds to me that the administration did exactly what they were supposed to do. Analyze the problem, determine different courses of actions, and determine which one is the best way forward.
Hey folks, Bush is gone, Obama is now in charge, and his six month blame it all on Bush and the Republican free time is up. Anything that is screwed up from this point on is all his administrations fault. We all know every job, everything that is screwed up for 6 months after someone leaves, it was his fault. Times up Democrats, stop blaming everything on Bush. You control everything in Washington DC now, so everything that is screwed up from this point on is on your party.
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