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Author Topic: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws  (Read 5933 times)

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Offline Pete

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If your going to be dumb, you better be tough!

Offline mark

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2013, 07:04:19 PM »
Hope he signs the Letter too!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 08:51:40 PM »
Sheriff Long?  Are you signing onto this?

Offline Chas

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2013, 10:13:03 PM »
Even if it passes it will not stand up when SCOTUS gets a hold of it.  They have ruled in the past that states cannot nullify federal law. The constitution states that federal law is supreme. The only two times in recent history that SCOTUS upheld the 10th amendment was to say that the federal govít could make them enforce federal law.  Everyone keeps say it is unconstitutional until SCOTUS rules who knows.  I believe they will as in the past use Article 6 of the constitution to say again the fed law trumps state law.  As with the Brady bill they may say that the fed canít make state enforce it but a state isnít going to outlaw it either.
From the MO house of Representatives the part in bold is telling.
HB 170
Specifies that a federal official must not enforce a federal firearm law when the firearm is manufactured and remains in the state and that any new federal law banning or restricting ownership of a semi-automatic firearm is unenforceable
Sponsor: Guernsey, Casey (002)

Co-Sponsor: Curtman, Paul (109) ... et al.
Proposed Effective Date: 8/28/2013
LR Number: 894H.01I
Last Action: 1/17/2013 - Referred: General Laws(H)
Bill String: HB 170
Next Hearing: Hearing not scheduled
Calendar: Bill currently not on a House calendar
I still havenít found anything that says a sheriff gets to decide what is constitutional.

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2013, 10:42:15 PM »
Passing or not it, the statement that local LE. Are sending DC speak volumes and if they can selectively enforce a mag ban in DC (David Gregory case), than our LE can do the same with whatever laws they choose.  They selectively enforce immigration a pot at a fed level. 
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Offline matrsnot

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2013, 11:27:14 PM »
They also selectively cover up gun running They seem to think they are "rulers."  Not elected officials.

Offline Chas

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2013, 11:29:15 PM »
I really donít a have problem with local LE selectively enforcing some laws I get they have to prioritize their money and people. I have a problem with Sheriffs saying that they will not enforce a law period or that a law is unconstitutional.  A sheriff doesnít get to make that decision.  A sheriff is a law enforcer not a law maker.  Once a law has been passed by congress upheld by SCOTUS and a then a sheriff declares that law unconstitutional that sheriff should be impeached.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 09:45:46 AM »
Why?  The president should be impeached for unilaterally making "laws" then also.  He is in violation of the Constitution this time.

Offline Chas

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2013, 06:39:58 PM »
Why? Because we do not elect a Sheriff to make laws we elect a sheriff to enforce laws.  If we allow a sheriff that kind of authority then why do we have the judicial system we can get rid of the PA and the judges? Where does it say EOs are unconstitutional?  All/most presidents have made them. How is the President in violation of the Constitution this time?

Offline 3.14159

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2013, 07:49:59 PM »
What if the President wrote an EO that you are only allowed to travel a Maximum of 200 miles a month in order to conserve energy and reduce Carbon footprint and global warming?
Those are all "good things" right.  You don't NEED to drive farther than that, Right?  This type o f thing has be done before by other Presidents, right?
 
Would you be alright with that?
 
/There is no Bill of Rights guarantee to drive a car.

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2013, 08:41:47 PM »
ahhh the old what if........I've got one for ya...what would you do if Obama tried to ban assault rifles, and reduce clip sizes?

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2013, 08:49:24 PM »
It would not the law if he did it unilaterally.  He cannot make laws in violation of the Constitution with his decrees. Only Congress can make laws. The President can sign, not sign or veto them.  He is not the law maker.  He has already signed his EO's, one of which is in violation of current federal law.  HIPPA  is federal.  It is just a nuisance to his agenda is all and it is yet another law he is electing to ignore. 

Offline Chas

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2013, 10:31:42 PM »
The amendments all come with clauses there are no absolute guarantees.  You do not have absolute freedom to say whatever you want. You do not have the absolute right to own whatever weapon you want, others have lost their right to a gun and rightly so. You do not have absolute freedom from unwarranted search and seizure. 
Presidents since G. Washington having been using these types orders,  courts have only overturn two.
Until 1952, there were no rules or guidelines outlining what the president could or could not do through an executive order. However, the Supreme Court ruled in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 US 579 (1952) that Executive Order 10340 from President Harry S. Truman placing all steel mills in the country under federal control was invalid because it attempted to make law, rather than clarify or act to further a law put forth by the Congress or the Constitution. Presidents since this decision have generally been careful to cite which specific laws they are acting under when issuing new executive orders. They also overturned one by Clinton in 1995.

I donít recall the GOP want to impeach a president for using them when they controlled the white house and the same go for the dems. The only time a party has a problem with EO is when it isnít their party making them. 
 "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."  Not much of law when you look at it.  I donít see a problem with addressing unnecessary legal barriers if there is something in there that says if a doctor know Iím a nut job and dangerous but he canít tell anyone is wrong. If a doctor knows Iím crazy and want to hurt someone then they should tell.
I really donít see anything in the 23 EO that are a bad thing.
Besides if not for EOs there would even be less done in DC. Most of them like the 23 donít amount to much.

Offline matrsnot

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Offline Chas

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2013, 11:30:52 PM »
So you are say that the SCOTUS can overruled by a sheriff? I don't think so.

Offline fish

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 02:13:08 AM »
if it is an illegal law, what's the problem?


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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2013, 04:21:08 AM »
The second amendment came with the clause "shall not be infringed". Seems simple enough
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Offline Chas

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 03:52:34 PM »
If it is passed by congress and upheld by SCOTUS as constitutional, then how can it be an illegal law?
Shall not be infringed where does it say that mental unstable people canít have a gun or that felonies canít have a gun. Not in the actual 2nd amendment, these were passed by congress at a later date and were found to be constitutional.  and I have no problem with that.  It was also decided that you canít own certain weapons again found to be constitutional.  There is nothing simple about the amendment, if was that simple, people would not have been fighting over for the last 137 years. If I remember correctly the first case was in 1876. But I wouldnít swear to that in a court of law.

Offline Chas

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2013, 09:33:38 PM »
Been waiting to see if JB is going to weigh in on this.

Offline Pete

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2013, 04:32:34 AM »
Been waiting to see if JB is going to weigh in on this.

I would rather hear what the sheriff has to say.
If your going to be dumb, you better be tough!

Offline tpgunbiz

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2013, 09:00:12 AM »
Me too whats Mr. Long think about this. Id like to know where he stands
Biscuit

Offline Chas

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2013, 03:48:07 PM »
I too would like to hear what the sheriff has to say but still would like to hear from JB as a past sheriff. Sheriff Long being new may have more urgent matters then this.  Once it is upheld by SCOTUS  he will have no choice other than to say lack of money and or manpower.  They could come back and say like the background checks that they canít force the sheriff to do it but that would mean he could not the feds from doing it. After all a sheriff doesnít get to make laws. Say what you want about the President and EOs, they have been an accepted practice since Washington.  Iím not arguing for a ban on guns Iím saying that a sheriff canít override a law that SCOTUS has said is constitutional.
According to the Supremacy Clause (Article VI, clause 2) of the United States Constitution,
This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
As the Supreme Court stated in Altria Group v. Good, 555 U.S. 70 (2008), a federal law that conflicts with a state law will trump, or "preempt", that state law:
Consistent with that command, we have long recognized that state laws that conflict with federal law are ďwithout effect.Ē Maryland v. Louisiana, 451 U. S. 725, 746 (1981)


Offline matrsnot

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2013, 06:52:50 PM »
Now relook at the Article.  Note the treaties portion. The UN Gun Ban Treaty is  coming at us again.

Offline Chas

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2013, 07:24:27 PM »
I left out this part.- Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution, includes the Treaty Clause, which empowers the President of the United States to propose and chiefly negotiate agreements between the United States and other countries, which become treaties between the United States and other countries after the advice and consent of a supermajority of the United States Senate.
An international accord that is inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution is void under domestic U.S. law, the same as any other federal law in conflict with the Constitution.  I don't think this treaty will pass the senate.  However we are talking about sheriffs and the Constitution.  From what I can gather from the posts and I could be way off base here, is that you and others  believe that sheriffs can overrule the SCOTUS and the Constitution? 

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2013, 08:57:28 PM »
Do you really believe any LE is going to go to homes to take weapons away?  This is what this is coming down to.  Of course, in the meantime I really don't believe this gunban will pass through Congress anyway.

Offline Valor7

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2013, 12:31:28 AM »
Chas; you made some good posts on this topic. Your constitution remarks are right on and I have the same position. Likewise I also agree with the folks who say the pres is doing way to many EO's. Since an appeals court ruled 3-0 today that the Pres violated the constitution with his "recess appointments" we shall see if he does have any regard fopr the constitution he swore to uphold.

          JB

       

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2013, 03:44:28 PM »
I still donít think EOís are illegal but Iím glad to see that the courts get involved and not have a problem with telling Obama he was wrong. Obama did the recess appointments wrong, I donít think that this will stop the EOís but it may give him pause on how he handles any others.  I do question a procedural technicality that the GOP used while they were on a 20 day holiday recess.  How can you be in session and gone for 20 days at the same time. He may yet win if he appeals as expected.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2013, 10:46:11 PM »
In the meantime, the economic outlook could change with this advent.

Offline Pete

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Re: Missouri Sheriffs Pledge To Not Enforce Obamaís Gun Control Laws
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2013, 04:26:34 AM »
Our OLD sheriff arrested a illeagle person and held him for ICE. Our POTUS has decided and informed ICE certain reasons for holding, or deporting said illeagle folks.  JB had to turn the guy lose. Is this not picking and choosing what laws he wants enforced. This is just one example. We could get into voter rights/intimidation ect. Our president and holder has been deciding what laws HE wants to follow and what to just forget about since he was elected. Is this right? A lot of you voted for him. Hell he got 110% of the vote in some counties. Taking out guns away will not be tolarated even for the King.
If your going to be dumb, you better be tough!