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Author Topic: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS  (Read 17805 times)

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Offline mark

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NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« on: August 04, 2008, 02:05:25 PM »

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How many monkeys (or how much time) would it take to randomly type just the title 'Encyclopedia Britannica'? The odds of a monkey typing the 'e' of the title in the first place is 1 in 39 (the number of keys on a typical keyboard). The odds of getting an 'e' followed by an 'n' is (1/39 x 1/39). The odds of a monkey getting just the title 'Encyclopedia Britannica' correct (one time) is 1/1036. If these monkeys are extremely proficient and persistent typists and make one attempt every second for the entire assumed age of the universe (15 billion years) it would still require 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 monkeys. In other words, enough monkeys to cover every square foot of the Earth's surface, stacked over one mile deep, making one attempt every second for 15 billion years MIGHT type the title right.... once. But even if one monkey did type the title right once, how would we ever recognize it among billions of trillions of wrong ones? The useful information coded into the simplest DNA molecule is unimaginably more complicated than the simple title 'Encyclopedia Britannica'. The odds of the useful code found on the DNA molecule forming by chance processes is astronomically smaller. In actuality, it is an absolute impossibility. Science clearly reveals that life can not form by evolutionary processes. Why aren't we teaching our children these facts of science?
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
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Offline Geezer Glide Taz

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 02:32:22 PM »
You keep writing weird stuff like this, and you will never get that rich good looking model
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Offline What_The?

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2008, 03:23:31 PM »
How many monkeys (or how much time) would it take to randomly type just the title 'Encyclopedia Britannica'? The odds of a monkey typing the 'e' of the title in the first place is 1 in 39 (the number of keys on a typical keyboard). The odds of getting an 'e' followed by an 'n' is (1/39 x 1/39). The odds of a monkey getting just the title 'Encyclopedia Britannica' correct (one time) is 1/1036. If these monkeys are extremely proficient and persistent typists and make one attempt every second for the entire assumed age of the universe (15 billion years) it would still require 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 monkeys. In other words, enough monkeys to cover every square foot of the Earth's surface, stacked over one mile deep, making one attempt every second for 15 billion years MIGHT type the title right.... once. But even if one monkey did type the title right once, how would we ever recognize it among billions of trillions of wrong ones? The useful information coded into the simplest DNA molecule is unimaginably more complicated than the simple title 'Encyclopedia Britannica'. The odds of the useful code found on the DNA molecule forming by chance processes is astronomically smaller. In actuality, it is an absolute impossibility. Science clearly reveals that life can not form by evolutionary processes. Why aren't we teaching our children these facts of science?

You are confusing science with probability. 
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline fish

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2008, 03:39:43 PM »
laws of probability are used in science.

Offline Geezer Glide Taz

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2008, 03:47:54 PM »
I am not taking any sides here, I have expressed where I stand on religion before, and this has nothing to do with my religious belief.
The monkeys can not do this as they have not been taught, and yes they can be taught. I am no way implying that Man and monkeys are the same, but if you gathered up millions of third world people, who have never seen a typewriter, or computer, and don't know how to read or write, and gave them the same task the results would probably be the same.
This has nothing to do with religion, nor does it prove the existence or disapprove it.
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Offline What_The?

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2008, 05:37:43 PM »
laws of probability are used in science.

But the laws of probability neither prove nor disprove the existence of anything.  They merely give the odds of an event occurring in a prescribed period of time.  Given enough time, a monkey may just write the entire Encyclopedia Britanica, word for word, perfectly.  Just as, given enough time, DNA might have just adapted (considering how DNA works the math is way off on this one too)Does this prove or disprove the existence of God?  Neither, since probabilities aren't designed to prove or disprove the EXISTENCE of ANYTHING.
 
The odds of winning the Powerball jackpot are in the neighborhood of 1 in 146,000,000.  Your chance of being struck by lightning are about 1 in 576,000.  Does this prove or disprove the existence of God?
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline mark

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2008, 07:15:32 PM »
There does not exist even one example of natural selection producing a new type of animal, a new organ, or even a major permanent change in an existing organism. This is because "natural selection" is just that - selection. It can only select the most advantageous information which is already present in the molecular blueprint of the organism. Natural selection cannot cause new useful information to be added to the DNA of an animal. Darwin (and his 150 year old book) were simply wrong when presenting this mechanism as the explanation for life's development. If it didn't happen that way guess how it did.
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Offline What_The?

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2008, 08:48:12 PM »
There does not exist even one example of natural selection producing a new type of animal, a new organ, or even a major permanent change in an existing organism. This is because "natural selection" is just that - selection. It can only select the most advantageous information which is already present in the molecular blueprint of the organism. Natural selection cannot cause new useful information to be added to the DNA of an animal. Darwin (and his 150 year old book) were simply wrong when presenting this mechanism as the explanation for life's development. If it didn't happen that way guess how it did.

How long did you study Darwinism to be able to disprove his theories?  And where is your degree in genetics from?
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline littlebit

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2008, 12:18:20 AM »
Darwin (and his 150 year old book) were simply wrong when presenting this mechanism as the explanation for life's development.

Are you saying we should ignore a 150 year old book because the ideas are severely outdated?   HMMMM.
 
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Offline fish

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2008, 12:57:51 AM »
Darwin was simply wrong. the fossil chain is incomplete and there is no logical or scientific support for the theory of evolution.

Offline What_The?

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2008, 01:21:18 AM »
Darwin was simply wrong. the fossil chain is incomplete and there is no logical or scientific support for the theory of evolution.

What does "the fossil chain is incomplete" mean?  In other words, you are presenting a conclusory statement, not presenting your magic word, "facts."  What "facts" do you have to support your contention that the fossil chain is incomplete?

Now based on what you've researched or learned about the fossil record and its "incompleteness," what does this mean?  Does it mean it is being re-written and re-interpreted based on newer, more accurate theories, evidence and data? 

How is this "bad?"  Isn't that good science?  Should scientists have stopped when they thought the humors caused diseases and left it at that?  There are children who are allowed to die because their parents believe prayer will cure easily cured diseases, instead of letting modern "science" get involved and cure their slowly dying child.  The same "science" that you are so afraid of brought us treatment for diabetes and the fossil record.  One could have easily saved the life of a suffering teen, whose parents prayed over her dying body instead of letting her get "modern science" treatments of insulin shots. 

Think about it.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline fish

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 01:39:24 AM »
it does not include all mutaions good and bad. it means evolutionists are still trying to prove a mistaken theory is possible.
 
you are confusing tempting God instead of using the medical treatments he gave us. those people are confused and some rightly are in jail.
 
that same science that gave us insulin involved studying dna. dna does not change in evolution. dna also confirms God. science confirms God. evolution? nah.

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2008, 01:45:40 PM »
One time I gave a typing test to a woman who had applied for a secretarial job.  She typed 5 words per minute.  Any child over 2 who knows the alphabet could have done better.  She was not a monkey, but I'm thinking a TRAINED monkey could have done the same or better.
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Offline mark

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2008, 01:57:48 PM »
The following strategy is repeatedly used by those who advocate "evolution only" education. They: 1. Define science to exclude the possibility of a creator. 2. Claim that all the evidence for our designer is "not science" and, therefore cannot be shown. 3. Repeat, like a mantra, statements such as "evolution is the basis of science" and imply that microbes to man evolution is a proven fact. 4. Then give examples of minor changes within organisms as "proof" that one organism can change into a completely different type, while using the same word, 'evolution' for both the small and the enormous changes. Actual scientific evidence for any major evolutionary transformation is non-existent. No experiment ever performed has come even remotely close to showing how life could form from chemicals. Major problems with original of life experiments are systematically hidden from students- after all, we can't have students considering the only other alternative (creation), can we? No experiment has shown how useful functioning information can be added to the DNA molecule by random changes. Yet, it can be experimentally demonstrated that every known mutation results in a net loss of original functioning information. why aren't we training students to ask the big question- where did all of this come from? Acknowledgment of a designer gives a mechanism that agrees with known scientific observations; evolution relies on faith that defines experimental reality. it is commonly parroted by evolution believers that creation is not science because it is not testable or repeatable. In actuality, the creation model is far more testable than the concept that microbes tuned into man by random mutational changes. Any sequence pattern even remotely similar in form or function to the DNA code, beamed to earth from outer space, would immediately be acknowledged as evidence of an intelligent originator. Yet, the same evidence for a designer, found in every DNA molecule, cannot be acknowledged as such in classrooms! Mutation rates have been accelerated in million-fold with fruit flies, yet no new creature or even any new functioning feature has ever developed. Fossils are an undeniable record of the sudden appearance of distinctly different animal forms with huge gaps between enormously diverse creatures. the creation model explains the fossil record as a consequence of a real worldwide flood and the reality of this ancient global flood has been repeatedly confirmed by careful scientific observations. Yet, these evidences are systematically suppressed because of a dogmatic faith in evolution, which survives by defining "science" so that it leaves out the better creation alternative. Those setting the standards for our public school science curriculum have merely replaced the acknowledgment of our Creator's existence with a definition of "science" that excludes the possibility of God's interaction with His creation. In essence modern man has decided to use the public education system to pretend that there is no God (at least not one worth mentioning). In reality what is being taught is that there is no God except naturalism. God, who desires for us to have a personal relationship with Him, has a response to this sad situation. Psalms 14:1 states' "The fool says in his heart, ' There is no God.'" We have become a nation of fools in the way we have allowed our children to be educated.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline What_The?

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2008, 03:46:37 PM »
The following strategy is repeatedly used by those who advocate "evolution only" education. They: 1. Define science to exclude the possibility of a creator. 2. Claim that all the evidence for our designer is "not science" and, therefore cannot be shown. 3. Repeat, like a mantra, statements such as "evolution is the basis of science" and imply that microbes to man evolution is a proven fact. 4. Then give examples of minor changes within organisms as "proof" that one organism can change into a completely different type, while using the same word, 'evolution' for both the small and the enormous changes. Actual scientific evidence for any major evolutionary transformation is non-existent. No experiment ever performed has come even remotely close to showing how life could form from chemicals. Major problems with original of life experiments are systematically hidden from students- after all, we can't have students considering the only other alternative (creation), can we? No experiment has shown how useful functioning information can be added to the DNA molecule by random changes. Yet, it can be experimentally demonstrated that every known mutation results in a net loss of original functioning information. why aren't we training students to ask the big question- where did all of this come from? Acknowledgment of a designer gives a mechanism that agrees with known scientific observations; evolution relies on faith that defines experimental reality. it is commonly parroted by evolution believers that creation is not science because it is not testable or repeatable. In actuality, the creation model is far more testable than the concept that microbes tuned into man by random mutational changes. Any sequence pattern even remotely similar in form or function to the DNA code, beamed to earth from outer space, would immediately be acknowledged as evidence of an intelligent originator. Yet, the same evidence for a designer, found in every DNA molecule, cannot be acknowledged as such in classrooms! Mutation rates have been accelerated in million-fold with fruit flies, yet no new creature or even any new functioning feature has ever developed. Fossils are an undeniable record of the sudden appearance of distinctly different animal forms with huge gaps between enormously diverse creatures. the creation model explains the fossil record as a consequence of a real worldwide flood and the reality of this ancient global flood has been repeatedly confirmed by careful scientific observations. Yet, these evidences are systematically suppressed because of a dogmatic faith in evolution, which survives by defining "science" so that it leaves out the better creation alternative. Those setting the standards for our public school science curriculum have merely replaced the acknowledgment of our Creator's existence with a definition of "science" that excludes the possibility of God's interaction with His creation. In essence modern man has decided to use the public education system to pretend that there is no God (at least not one worth mentioning). In reality what is being taught is that there is no God except naturalism. God, who desires for us to have a personal relationship with Him, has a response to this sad situation. Psalms 14:1 states' "The fool says in his heart, ' There is no God.'" We have become a nation of fools in the way we have allowed our children to be educated.

Wall of text.
 
 Cite your sources.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline mark

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2008, 08:28:46 PM »
No wonder God hasn't revealed himself to you "What The" I think he could stand in front of you and do a couple miracles and you would scoff and say it was an old man in a robe doing magic tricks. OPEN YOUR MIND.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline What_The?

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2008, 08:31:35 PM »
No wonder God hasn't revealed himself to you "What The" I think he could stand in front of you and do a couple miracles and you would scoff and say it was an old man in a robe doing magic tricks. OPEN YOUR MIND.

Perform the miracle of making sense and citing your sources.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline mark

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2008, 11:51:56 PM »
Where have I not made sense?
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline fish

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2008, 01:10:35 AM »
what are your sources what the?
 
you won't accept any sources you do not agree with, whether they are accurate or not ,

Offline What_The?

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2008, 03:15:57 PM »
what are your sources what the?
 
you won't accept any sources you do not agree with, whether they are accurate or not ,

Sources for what?  I am not the one making bold proclamations of "facts."  Back up what you claim to be "fact" with sources or admit you are just making things up as you go.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline fish

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2008, 04:11:13 PM »
sources to support God doesn't exist, oh that's right, you said it is impossible to prove something doesn't exist.
 
science and logic prove God, what are your sources that prove He isn't?

Offline What_The?

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2008, 05:20:35 PM »
sources to support God doesn't exist, oh that's right, you said it is impossible to prove something doesn't exist.
 
science and logic prove God, what are your sources that prove He isn't?

It is like the kid who can't help but keep touching a hot stove.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2008, 05:36:12 PM »
When he/she asks you to "cite your sources", he/she is asking you to tell us where you are getting your information. A source is a firsthand document or primary reference work. Did you get it from the internet? A hyperlink would do fine. Did you get it from a book? Give us the title, author, edition/date. Chapters, pages, and paragraphs would be helpful as well.
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Offline mark

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2008, 07:09:16 PM »
I learned basic math starting in the first grade!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline julymorning

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2008, 07:29:18 PM »
When he/she asks you to "site your sources", he/she is asking you to tell us where you are getting your information. A source is a firsthand document or primary reference work. Did you get it from the internet? A hyperlink would do fine. Did you get it from a book? Give us the title, author, edition/date. Chapters, pages, and paragraphs would be helpful as well.

I often cite my sources.
 
Mark, while I was reading some of Darwin's Origin of Species yesterday I read that his explanation for lack of a fossil record between major changes and huge gaps between is due to such a looooonnnnngggg time span between noticable differences we haven't unearthed them yet.  LOL, and he also said something to the effect that subsequent species destroyed each previous 'step', affording nothing to fossilize. Now, mind you the language was highly technical and verbose but I got the gist of it.  How convenient.
Hey, it's just me, Suzi


Offline mark

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2008, 07:52:54 PM »
I know July, its a ridiculous theory that a surprising number of people still believe. I have said many times on here that I get a lot of good material by doing a Google search on "Creation Science" hope that helps!
 
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2008, 08:41:37 PM »
I know July, its a ridiculous theory that a surprising number of people still believe. I have said many times on here that I get a lot of good material by doing a Google search on "Creation Science" hope that helps!
 

Now fish will hate you.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2008, 08:44:35 PM »
Fish loves me. Its just one perk of being a Christian.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline What_The?

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2008, 08:56:25 PM »
Fish loves me. Its just one perk of being a Christian.

Proof positive that you aren't a good Christian. 
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: NOT ENOUGH MONKEYS
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2008, 09:32:03 PM »
Ouch, but where does that leave you?
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin