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Author Topic: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..  (Read 22678 times)

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Offline matrsnot

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2010, 06:09:53 PM »

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Offline Hi

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2010, 07:02:21 PM »
Yes Obama is secretly trying to ruin America, if I believe that, I also have to believe 9-11 was an inside job, god is real, women nag for legitimate reasons, etc etc.

Offline Hi

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2010, 07:03:25 PM »
The price of oil is not controlled by the president of the united states.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2010, 07:18:38 PM »
I didn't say he is doing it secretly.  No secret at all.  One must only open their eyes to see.  But to SEE is the key  to it.

Freedom Limitations:
http://www.mainjustice.com/2010/12/2...o-white-house/

  Support of the MIAC Report

Using SPLC to "identify"  so-called hate groups (Read Conservatives)
Government take over of auto industry
Attempted Government take over of Healthcare (still in limbo)
spending more in his first three months in office than Bush spent in 8 years on the Iraq War.  this trebling of debt has put us deeper in debt to China and our progeny will have to try to pay the bill off long after HRH is out of office and most of us are dead.  So tell me what he accomplished to get the Nobel peace Prize again?  I can go on and on about this guy, but many have eyes and do not see and  have ears, but do not hear.
 
Now back to the subject at hand:
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/06/27/obamas-promise-to-bankrupt-coal-industry-to-cost-1000-jobs-in-upper-midwest/
 
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/03/video-of-obama-coal-bankruptcy/
 
http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2008/11/obama-and-coal-obama-policies-would-bankrupt-coal-industry-and-skyrocketing-electricity/
 
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/11/02/hidden-audio-obama-tells-sf-chronicle-he-will-bankrupt-coal-industry
 
http://www.theatlanticright.com/2008/11/03/media-jump-on-coal-bankruptcy-story-cnn-defends-obama/
 
Hope that is enough proof for the doubters about his intent.
 

 

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2010, 07:21:13 PM »
he's not doing it secretly ............ 9-11 was inside only in the sense that the muslim attackers were inside the planes .......... God is real........and women do nag for legitimate reasons (ok not 100% sure about that one)

Yes Obama is secretly trying to ruin America, if I believe that, I also have to believe 9-11 was an inside job, god is real, women nag for legitimate reasons, etc etc.

Offline Hi

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2010, 07:26:50 PM »
Bush took away more freedom with the patriot act.  Under the guise of fear. 
 
You act as if all Obama has to do is decide on things he wants and implement them.  Congress votes on these things you know.  Placing the blame solely on his shoulders and not the 500+ other people who have a hand in these decisions is ludicrous.
 
Who cares about the peace prize really, when you bring that up you sound jealous or something.

Offline Hi

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2010, 07:28:39 PM »
he's not doing it secretly ............ 9-11 was inside only in the sense that the muslim attackers were inside the planes .......... God is real........and women do nag for legitimate reasons (ok not 100% sure about that one)

and yet you can only prove one of them

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2010, 07:34:18 PM »
I certainly don't see HRH trying to get rid of the patriot act either.  Too much power to lose.  Waiting for his "civilian security force" to come into being.  Maybe they will wear blue helmets too.  There is nothing to prove about the "inside job" on 911.  that is clear cut unless you listen to Rosie and other actors.  HRH uses fear every day to try to get what he wants.  He won't be getting as much starting next week. 
 
and since you (HI) used the Htler analogy:
 
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_obama_planning_a_gestapo-like_civilian_national.html
 
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/obamas_civilian_national_secur.html
 
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/71365
 
http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2010/03/time-for-obamas-civilian-security-force.html
 
 

Offline Hi

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2010, 07:45:38 PM »
So with what you just said how does that not also apply to repubs?  Oh wait there is no difference between the two.  Also the sites you listed above to back your ideas prove more to this point.  If you scroll to the bottom of every one and click about you will see they all call themselves right of the middle sites.  Clearly biased towards repubs, and exactly why they cant be used as actual proof but moreso to form opinions (or brainwash).  Dem Sites will spin that same story and make it reflect a good image towards themselves.  This is exactly why im trying to make the point you have to do your own research on subjects and draw your own conclusions, but in this day in age its almost impossible to do so because of all the BS and biased stories out there, you almost have to be involved personally with politics to actually get the truth.  There is too much smoke and mirrors from both sides, not enough about what the people want, but what the people who got voted in by the people want.  American Government is a joke currently, on all sides.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2010, 07:49:21 PM »
I won't argue that point.  The entire gooberment is a joke.  The current regime is startlingly close dissolution of this country.  They want absolute power.  Again, power obtained under Bush has not been abolished nor has that even been discussed.  HRH still wants his civilian security force.  Just can't fund it now.  Spent too much taking over private industry.
 
http://swordattheready.wordpress.com/2009/03/31/obamas-fascist-takeover-of-the-auto-industry/
 
 

Offline Chas

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2010, 09:32:01 PM »
He is Bush lite.A lot of the stuff he gets blamed for is extensions of the Bush admin. No president is going to give up any power he doesn't have to.

Offline fish

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2010, 01:26:36 AM »
what does the drilling ban do to the oil supply? when a ban is lifted, the price goes down. the weak dollar is also the reason oil costs us so much.

nobama is not secretly trying to ruin america. obamacare, oil drilling ban, repeal of dadt.... this was all done in braod daylight in plain sight.

Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2010, 01:32:10 AM »
This I have been told 20 years or more...We do not have an oil shortage....We have a refinery shortage...We have all the crude we need but cannot refine it. This certainly does not start here and now, it has been ongoing.....
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline 2CardJohnE

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2010, 01:37:53 AM »
it's not two years in...yet winston.

what's the price of gas winston? what's a barrel of oil running?
  as a matter of fact just weeks after this last election, with many new republicans voted in and the talk is how much higher its going to get...coincident?  No..big oil found a hole around the "Think Green" way of thinking and they are going to run with it for 2 years and see what happens...back to $4 and $5 gas again
John Wayne said it best, "I may not have voted for him, but he is MY President

Offline fish

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2010, 02:16:27 AM »
that is true okie. usage is up, demand is growing. but no new refineries have been built in almost 40 years. the permits from the epa, all the other paperwork,environmental impact..etc. it takes 10 years to build a refinery. build a refinery and the price of oil will drop, on the announcement alone.

W suggested a look at some of the closed military installations to be a possible location for a refinery. they already have an infrastructure in place. of course more would need to be added, but a good start.

Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2010, 02:21:48 AM »
Then let's get after that idea instead of just laying blame on someone that has had nothing to do with it.
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline fish

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2010, 02:07:58 PM »
nobama has nothing to do with lowering oil prices and improving our country's energy independence?

wrong, he could put building a new refinery on the front burner instead of programs that control the masses.

Offline Geezer Glide Taz

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2010, 02:30:31 PM »
so, why did no Republican President ever build a new refinery?
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Offline fish

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2010, 02:56:57 PM »
why didn't a dem president push for it ? the problem is the epa.

the embargo in the 70's should have started the ball rolling. but jimmy said"just turn down your thermostat and wear a sweater.

there have been small refineries built since 1976. the right size for the location perhaps, but a significant refinery would need to have a capacity of at least 200.000 barrels a day. that is the capacity of the one built in 1976.

how many jobs would construction of a new refinery generate?

Offline FordGuyu

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2010, 04:43:03 PM »
why didn't a dem president push for it ? the problem is the epa.

the embargo in the 70's should have started the ball rolling. but jimmy said"just turn down your thermostat and wear a sweater.

there have been small refineries built since 1976. the right size for the location perhaps, but a significant refinery would need to have a capacity of at least 200.000 barrels a day. that is the capacity of the one built in 1976.

how many jobs would construction of a new refinery generate?

The Democratic agenda is to shrink the size of the petroleum industry in the US, and grow the size of "alternate" energy sources... therefore, it makes no sense for a Democratic presidency to increase refining capacity. It's cheaper for oil companies to invest in drilling operations in other countries because of the liquid state of US policy regarding petroleum drilling. .  They push for usage of alternate energy that is nowhere near as efficient (or cheap) as coal or petroleum.

I'm all for clean energy, but it doesn't exist yet. The only viable means of powering our country is coal and petroleum at this time, and this will not change anytime soon. The only thing anti-petroleum policies accomplish is higher prices.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2010, 04:50:14 PM »
And the dems have been highly successful in getting prices up and keeping them there.

Offline fish

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2010, 08:22:59 PM »
you are right fordguy. ethanol is a great example as is the  gm volt.

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2010, 12:27:59 PM »
so, why did no Republican President ever build a new refinery?

Presidents don't (or at least shouldn't) be building private enterprises such as oil refineries.

However, I'm assuming your point is that perhaps Republicans should have been doing more to promote petroleum refining.

President Bush, whose business was oil and gas exploration prior to running for governor of Texas, actually had a really good idea. He proposed allowing former military bases closed by BRAC, which were already federal property and in many cases had significant contaminants which would have impeded commercial redevelopment and cost millions or billions of federal dollars for cleanup, to be converted into refineries. He suspected, correctly so, that the environmentalists couldn't object because the property was already contaminated and the local communities would be happier to have a refinery with jobs than a closed installation gathering dust.

This wasn't a pie-in-the sky plan. One of the bases on the BRAC list was Cannon Air Force Base outside Clovis, N.M., which is not only within easy driving distance of Bush's hometown of Midland, Texas, but also just a few miles away from an area which Bush's oil company had unsuccessfully explored for possible untapped oil. It would have been a logical location for a refinery given its proximity to oilfields and easy access to both road and rail transportation.

Local community leaders (who, interestingly enough, are also organized as a "Committee of Fifty" with that same name as the one here) didn't necessarily object to the refinery proposal as a "Plan B," but they aggressively worked with that state's equivalent to the Missouri Military Preparedness and Enhancement Commission.

The only installation on the BRAC list to be saved from closure turned out to be Cannon Air Force Base; Cannon ended up being converted from an F-16 fighter base to the home of Air Force special operations training, so the oil refinery proposal became irrelevant for that base.

And yes, if you connect the dots, you'll realize that I was a reporter for the Clovis News-Journal covering the military during this period. BRAC was a factor in my decision to come back to Fort Leonard Wood; I don't have any problem with the oil industry, but I'd much rather cover the military.

If you can show me another president, Republican or Democrat, who had any more specific plan to build an oil refinery, I'd like to know who it was. I'm not saying there wasn't one, but I don't know of one.
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Offline Geezer Glide Taz

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2010, 02:08:53 PM »
No DTM, that was not my point. My point was, people are slamming the Obama for not building new refineries, not doing more to lower the cost of oil and fuel, so my point was, what have the past Republicans presidents ever done for this? Under Bush's regime, the cost of fuel was the highest in history, but they blame that on Wall street, but now, it's Obama's fault.

My point is, no party, democratic nor republican are willing to scrap knuckles with big oil, automotive companies, or Saudi Arabia to force the issue to develop non fossil fuel energy and transportation. We have the technology. The electric car is very feasible, but because it does not need millions of spare parts, big car makers don't want it. Wind and solar technology is very doable, along with other plant developed synthetic fuels, but would destroy the oil companies. While working with robotics, I worked with General Dynamics who had developed an electric powered tank, that can run for over 48 hours. They got this technology from GMC, so again, the technology is there, but big money is what is stopping all this, not a president, not a political party. Too many politicians are getting their pockets lined to keep all this technology in a closet.
 
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Offline Chas

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2010, 02:22:39 PM »
Without doing a lot of research I believe that gas prices were highest or at least spiked to the highest when a republican was in office. Some of these are do natural disasters - Katrina others, are manmade -Iran - contra. The highest gas price was 2008.  However the reason we have been seeing higher gas prices in the last several years is supply and demand. The US consumption has gone down in the last 6 years (have to find that article) and the developing countries are using more. So really to blame any administration for gas prices is not really correct. If we want to blame anyone it should be OPEC. Yes more oil refineries would help but they are costly to build and would cut into the oil companies profits in the long run  it would help but  they are making record profits so why would they. It does sound like Bush was trying to help by have a refinery built in close proximity of his own oil holdings. Nice, so much for a president not trying to influence the oil industry.

Offline Chas

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2010, 02:26:05 PM »
Taz is also correct. Really what would a car that ran something other than oil do to our economy.  Of course a car that only emitted water would eventually screw our weather up also.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2010, 02:28:23 PM »
Try walking or riding a bicycle or a horse then.

Offline fish

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2010, 03:47:08 PM »
nobama's moratorium on new drilling has a definite effect on fuel prices. that ban stifles supply. but with 9.8% unemployment, a fast track to building a new refinery would be a definite boost to the economy. how many jobs would be created to build and then run the refinery? the supply of petroleum products would greatly increase. it's a win-win.

the electric cars are fine for around the neighborhood, but golf carts are cheaper. and some are electric and can be charged without  expensive charging equipment. when an electric car can be made that will compete on par with a gas powered car, then they will make a difference.

Offline Chas

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2010, 04:20:50 PM »
What moratorium on drilling? According to a story by Fox news it was lifted back in Oct. There may be other safety hurdles to jump but they can drill. It will take more time and money .  Naw, Iím not riding a horse just send me some cheese and crackers.

Offline FordGuyu

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Re: Barack will raise utility costs and bankrupt the coal industry, his words..
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2010, 05:59:18 PM »
What moratorium on drilling? According to a story by Fox news it was lifted back in Oct. There may be other safety hurdles to jump but they can drill. It will take more time and money .  Naw, Iím not riding a horse just send me some cheese and crackers.

it's not really about Obama or Bush or Dems or Repubs... it's about stability of policy in the US.. if you're a giant company trying to get oil out of the ground, you can't rely on the US position on drilling. Therefore, you have to go elsewhere.

No president in recent history has seriously addressed the shortage of refinery capacity (or stabilized US policy on drilling and exploration), and our dependence on the middle east and Canada (mexico, venezuala etc..)  has only increased. If you knew the government red tape involved in drilling/mining in the US you'd wonder why any company would ever want to do any business here whatsoever..

This isn't really a political issue to me.. it's a technology issue. The technology doesn't exist for reliable, feasible, clean alternate energy at this point. Maybe in the future, but right now we need to figure out how to exploit the resources we do have.