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Author Topic: christians being persecuted  (Read 6893 times)

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Offline fish

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christians being persecuted
« on: November 13, 2008, 01:52:54 AM »

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didn't know whether to put it here or in the political section.
 
November 11, 2008  Worshippers in Lansing, MI assaulted by liberal activists Rick Moran
Suppose you were sitting in church one Sunday peacefully minding your own business, praying that God grant our new president the wisdom to do what is right when suddenly, the sanctity of the church is violated in the most horrific way by vandals, thugs, and screaming lunatics.

This is what happened at a small church in Lansing, MI called Mount Hope. From the blog Right Michigan:

  Mount Hope, for the record, is an evangelical, bible believing church whose members provide free 24 hour counseling, prayer lines, catastrophic care for families dealing with medical emergencies, support groups for men, women and children dealing with a wide variety of life's troubles, crisis intervention, marriage ministries, regular, organized volunteer work in and around the city, missions in dozens of countries across the globe, a construction ministry that has built over 100 churches, schools, orphanages and other projects all over the world and an in-depth prison ministry that reaches out, touches and helps the men and women the rest of society fears the most.  They also teach respect for all human life and the Biblical sanctity of marriage as an institution between one man and one woman.
 What followed is like something out of the annals of Solzhenitsyn or some other account of bigotry directed against religion: 
This is what Michigan liberals label a "radical right wing establishment," and over 30 of them showed up in force yesterday.  Wearing secret-service style ear pieces and microphones they received the "go" from their ringleader and off they went. 


 Prayer had just finished when men and women stood up in pockets across the congregation, on the main floor and in the balcony.  "Jesus was gay," they shouted among other profanities and blasphemies as they rushed the stage.  Some forced their way through rows of women and kids to try to hang a profane banner from the balcony while others began tossing fliers into the air.  Two women made their way to the pulpit and began to kiss.
 Their other props?  I'll let them tell you in their own words... from another of their liberal blogs:
 "(A) video camera, a megaphone, noise makers, condoms, glitter by the bucket load, confetti, pink fabric...yeh."
 The video camera they put to good use as they attempted to provoke a violent reaction.  The image of the pink-clad folks above is one of theirs, stating in a picture worth more than a thousand words the goals of the Michigan left.   
 The "open minded" and "tolerant" liberals ran down the aisles and across the pews, hoping against hope to catch a "right winger" on tape daring to push back (none did).  And just in case their camera missed the target, they had a reporter in tow.  According to a source inside the church yesterday there was a "journalist" from the Lansing City Pulse along for the ride, tipped off about the action and more interested in getting a story than in preventing the vandalism, the violence and anti-Christian hatred being spewed by the lefties.  We'll see what he files and what his editors see fit to print. How charming. And how revealing. These thugs were only doing what many liberals would love to do  - if they were as shameless as these idiots.
   Can we expect more of this? Given what I've seen so far, I think that social cons are in for a very rough few years as Obama's victory seems to have empowered these punks. They will force their moral views down your throat whether you like it or not.
And they think they have the power to do it.
 
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/11/worshippers_in_lansing_mi_assa.html

Offline ECOGEEK54

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2008, 06:01:24 AM »
Wow.  That's just rediculous. 
Okay, I'm seeing the word "liberals" alot.  Do these people really fit into this category?  What proof does this gentleman have that they are "liberals."

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2008, 11:39:43 AM »
I'm from Michigan, I know a number of people in the Lansing area, and hadn't heard anything from people who would usually e-mail me about things like this. I initially was afraid this would turn out to be a grossly exaggerated incident or perhaps didn't happen at all.

However, it really did happen, and is even worse than what has been stated here on the Pulaski County Web. I've put some links at the bottom of this post. And since I'm from Michigan, I can say firsthand that East Lansing, like too many other university towns, is a hotbed of left-wing radicalism. (My mother attended Michigan State University's journalism school, and the campus was left-of-center even in the early 1950s.)

From what I can tell so far, Mount Hope Church is a large Assemblies of God congregation that has an active "ex-gay" outreach ministry. That's apparently why they were targeted. My own home church, Neighborhood Congregational Church of Greenwich Village, which for many years was the only evangelical congregation in a very liberal part of New York City, has been the target of anti-gay protests in the past because it also has an ex-gay outreach ministry. It says a lot that they're spreading from areas like Greenwich Village -- the center of the Stonewall Rebellion -- to more conservative midwestern places like Michigan.

It's not fair to blame all homosexuals for garbage like this, so let's not do it. If you read the "Bash Back" website, this radical gay organization even pickets mainstream "gay rights" groups like HRC for not being radical enough and trying to "assimilate."

What concerns me the most about this is that some of the blogs indicate that the church initially took a "no comment" stance toward the news media. If that's true, it is very, very wrong. Let's take a lesson from the left wing's use of the news media and make clear that when people persecute Christians, we need to follow the example of the Apostle Paul and be very public about demanding that people obey the civil law. Attacks on evangelical Christians for their beliefs deserve the same response from the police and attention in the news media as attacks on abortion clinics or left-wing organizations. (And by the way, white evangelical Christians can and should join in condemnations of those who attack black churches or synagogues, or who engage in criminal actions against mosques. On issues like this, we can and should make common cause with Mormons, Roman Catholics, conservative Jews, and anyone else who affirms a basic faith commitment to traditional Judeo-Christian values. And there is no excuse for breaking the law to disrupt a worship service or trespass on private property, even if it's a liberal church, an abortion clinic or some kind of homosexual club.)

For those who think the proper Christian response is just to endure persecution with quiet suffering and patience, read Acts 16:35-40:

35When it was daylight, the magistrates sent their officers to the jailer with the order: "Release those men." 36The jailer told Paul, "The magistrates have ordered that you and Silas be released. Now you can leave. Go in peace." 37But Paul said to the officers: "They beat us publicly without a trial, even though we are Roman citizens, and threw us into prison. And now do they want to get rid of us quietly? No! Let them come themselves and escort us out." 38The officers reported this to the magistrates, and when they heard that Paul and Silas were Roman citizens, they were alarmed. 39They came to appease them and escorted them from the prison, requesting them to leave the city. 40After Paul and Silas came out of the prison, they went to Lydia's house, where they met with the brothers and encouraged them. Then they left.

It's certainly true that when Christians are in countries where we have no protection from the law, we must accept suffering and rejoice that we have been counted worthy to suffer for our faith. But there is absolutely no biblical prohibition on demanding our rights as American citizens, just as the Apostle Paul demanded his rights as a Roman citizen. (This is an important difference -- Paul, unlike most of the early Christian leaders, was a citizen of Rome and was entitled to legal rights that Jesus and most of his followers did not have under Roman law.)

And America is still conservative enough that, given proper publicity, most Americans will recoil in disgust at radical actions like this and demand that moderate liberals denounce them. If that doesn't happen, it will make clear that the moderate liberals aren't so moderate after all.

Regards,
Darrell Todd Maurina

____

Detroit Free Press:
http://www.freep.com/article/20081111/NEWS06/81111082/1008/NEWS06
Lansing State Journal: http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20081112/NEWS01/811120369


Conservative websites:
http://blog.mlive.com/minorityreport/2008/11/bash_back_bashes_lansing_churc.html
http://www.rightmichigan.com/story/2008/11/10/13335/904
http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/1/233468.html
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=30504

Homosexual or "alternative media" sites:
http://bashbacknews.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/bash-back-raises-hell-at-anti-queer-mega-church/
http://www.lansingcitypulse.com/lansing/article-2302-gay-anarchist-action-hits-church.html
Darrell Todd Maurina
Check out the Pulaski County Daily News online newspaper at
http://www.pulaskicountyweb.com
Cell: (573) 433.6733 * FAX: (573) 774-2349
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darrellmaurina/
Follow me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/darrellmaurina/

Offline freethinker

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 05:35:25 PM »
That's pretty eff'ed up in my book. it's one thing to have a heated discussion, but you dont go into someone's place worship and try to provoke an altercation.
 
on a side note:  intolerance breeds intolerance

Offline What_The?

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 07:29:56 PM »
People do stupid things these days for attention, but to claim that Christians are being persecuted isn't just a stretch, its laughable.

"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline Coyote

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 08:36:33 PM »
I'd say "persecuted" was the wrong word.  I think they were being used.  It wouldn't be news-worthy if they jumped up and wreaked havoc on a PTA meeting or a tupperware party.
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline freethinker

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 09:25:25 PM »
People do stupid things these days for attention, but to claim that Christians are being persecuted isn't just a stretch, its laughable.

agreed. this is in no way persecution.

Offline fish

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2008, 02:43:59 AM »
what would you call it then?

Offline kari

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2008, 03:28:17 AM »
what would you call it then?
Disrespectful, harassment, vandalism.....I do not see that at persecution.
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline What_The?

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2008, 03:30:55 AM »
A publicity stunt to make insecure Christians quake in their boots that the gays are coming to destroy them!


DUHN DUHN DUHHHHHHH.

Look out Christians, gays acted like complete jackasses and you feel threatened?

Guess who won?
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline Coyote

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2008, 01:27:26 PM »
There's something wrong with you.
 
A publicity stunt to make insecure Christians quake in their boots that the gays are coming to destroy them!


DUHN DUHN DUHHHHHHH.

Look out Christians, gays acted like complete jackasses and you feel threatened?

Guess who won?
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2008, 02:03:53 PM »
Disrespectful, harassment, vandalism.....I do not see that at persecution.

Kari, I want to gently disagree with you on this one.
 
Is this in the same category as Kristallnacht or the Russian and German pogroms against Jews in the 1800s and early 1900s? Of course not, and if you want to reserve the word "persecution" for very serious actions like that, I won't quarrel with your choice of definitions.
 
Let's say a radical homosexual group did this at an Orthodox Jewish synagogue following a statement by their rabbi opposing a decision by the Reform synagogue across town to perform a gay marriage. Lets say that just like at the Mt. Hope Church, the group came in, shouted blasphemous anti-Jewish slogans, had two lesbians kissing in front of the Torah scrolls, hung a blasphemous banner from a balcony, threw condoms and glitter all over the synagogue, and two men went into a bathroom to have sexual relations in direct defiance of the Levitical prohibition on such activity.
 
The Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith very correctly gets up in arms when neo-Nazi skinheads do things like paint swastikas on synagogues and Jewish cemetery tombstones. An activity like this at a Jewish synagogue would, quite correctly, generate a furious response. And if desecration of a Jewish synagogue happened in an area where I was a reporter, I would be one of the people giving it wall-to-wall news coverage, like it deserves. Media scrutiny is one of the best ways to make sure a criminal act doesn't get forgotten by the police or by the public.
 
We need to remember that anti-religious bigots typically start small to see how their targets respond. Weak responses lead to things getting much worse. At the very least, the people who did this at Mt. Hope Church need to be located and charged with trespassing. Depending on the laws in effect and exactly what they did, they should also be prosecuted for disrupting a religious worship service (often a crime in many jurisdictions) and/or for hate crimes.
 
Regards,
Darrell Todd Maurina
Darrell Todd Maurina
Check out the Pulaski County Daily News online newspaper at
http://www.pulaskicountyweb.com
Cell: (573) 433.6733 * FAX: (573) 774-2349
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2008, 03:45:56 PM »
That story made me chuckle. Ha Ha, Crazy gays. What will they think up next?
(\__/)
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Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2008, 03:52:41 PM »
That story made me chuckle. Ha Ha, Crazy gays. What will they think up next?

Would you chuckle if a group did these things in your home, or a club to which you belong?
 
Or if people painted Nazi symbols on a synagogue or burned a cross on the lawn of an African-American church?
 
If so, you're consistent. If not, please explain why you believe Christians deserve less protection under the law for exercising their First Amendment rights.
 
Regards,
DTM
Darrell Todd Maurina
Check out the Pulaski County Daily News online newspaper at
http://www.pulaskicountyweb.com
Cell: (573) 433.6733 * FAX: (573) 774-2349
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Offline kari

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2008, 03:56:17 PM »

Kari, I want to gently disagree with you on this one.
 
Is this in the same category as Kristallnacht or the Russian and German pogroms against Jews in the 1800s and early 1900s? Of course not, and if you want to reserve the word "persecution" for very serious actions like that, I won't quarrel with your choice of definitions.
 
Let's say a radical homosexual group did this at an Orthodox Jewish synagogue following a statement by their rabbi opposing a decision by the Reform synagogue across town to perform a gay marriage. Lets say that just like at the Mt. Hope Church, the group came in, shouted blasphemous anti-Jewish slogans, had two lesbians kissing in front of the Torah scrolls, hung a blasphemous banner from a balcony, threw condoms and glitter all over the synagogue, and two men went into a bathroom to have sexual relations in direct defiance of the Levitical prohibition on such activity.
 
The Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith very correctly gets up in arms when neo-Nazi skinheads do things like paint swastikas on synagogues and Jewish cemetery tombstones. An activity like this at a Jewish synagogue would, quite correctly, generate a furious response. And if desecration of a Jewish synagogue happened in an area where I was a reporter, I would be one of the people giving it wall-to-wall news coverage, like it deserves. Media scrutiny is one of the best ways to make sure a criminal act doesn't get forgotten by the police or by the public.
 
We need to remember that anti-religious bigots typically start small to see how their targets respond. Weak responses lead to things getting much worse. At the very least, the people who did this at Mt. Hope Church need to be located and charged with trespassing. Depending on the laws in effect and exactly what they did, they should also be prosecuted for disrupting a religious worship service (often a crime in many jurisdictions) and/or for hate crimes.
 
Regards,
Darrell Todd Maurina
DTM, had this same thing happened in a synagogue, I will feel the same way.  The people that did this should be jailed for what they did.  From what I read, they had pro-gay banners, not anti-Christian banners (ie., nothing was written saying anything the banners were directed against Christians, except the Jesus being gay, BUT I've met many gay Christians that do believe it was so).  I read no where that sexual acts were committed (public lewdness), or that lesbians were kissing in front of the pulpit, or that condoms were thrown around.  Though you may not feel they are, it is possible some of those that committed that horrendous act may be of the Christian faith, just not the main stream Christian faith.
 
Comparing what those disgraceful idiots did, to that of painting swastikas (a sign of hate directed towards Jews, a sign that millions died under) on a synagogue or on Jewish tombstones is not possible.  One is a hate crime, the other a disgusting, disgraceful, disrespectful, and uncalled for act.  As I said, I would feel the same way.  They should be arrested, but I do not see it as persecution, even if it was done in a synagogue.
 
I've, personally, been through religious persecution.  There is a big difference.
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline What_The?

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2008, 04:07:27 PM »

Kari, I want to gently disagree with you on this one.
 
Is this in the same category as Kristallnacht or the Russian and German pogroms against Jews in the 1800s and early 1900s? Of course not, and if you want to reserve the word "persecution" for very serious actions like that, I won't quarrel with your choice of definitions.
 
Let's say a radical homosexual group did this at an Orthodox Jewish synagogue following a statement by their rabbi opposing a decision by the Reform synagogue across town to perform a gay marriage. Lets say that just like at the Mt. Hope Church, the group came in, shouted blasphemous anti-Jewish slogans, had two lesbians kissing in front of the Torah scrolls, hung a blasphemous banner from a balcony, threw condoms and glitter all over the synagogue, and two men went into a bathroom to have sexual relations in direct defiance of the Levitical prohibition on such activity.
 
The Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith very correctly gets up in arms when neo-Nazi skinheads do things like paint swastikas on synagogues and Jewish cemetery tombstones. An activity like this at a Jewish synagogue would, quite correctly, generate a furious response. And if desecration of a Jewish synagogue happened in an area where I was a reporter, I would be one of the people giving it wall-to-wall news coverage, like it deserves. Media scrutiny is one of the best ways to make sure a criminal act doesn't get forgotten by the police or by the public.
 
We need to remember that anti-religious bigots typically start small to see how their targets respond. Weak responses lead to things getting much worse. At the very least, the people who did this at Mt. Hope Church need to be located and charged with trespassing. Depending on the laws in effect and exactly what they did, they should also be prosecuted for disrupting a religious worship service (often a crime in many jurisdictions) and/or for hate crimes.
 
Regards,
Darrell Todd Maurina

Another case of minorities seeking special treatment, eh fishie poo?
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline kari

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2008, 04:13:26 PM »

Would you chuckle if a group did these things in your home, or a club to which you belong?
 
Or if people painted Nazi symbols on a synagogue or burned a cross on the lawn of an African-American church?
 
If so, you're consistent. If not, please explain why you believe Christians deserve less protection under the law for exercising their First Amendment rights.
 
Regards,
DTM
I would sincerely hope prE4chEr was being sarcastic..... People being so disrespectul is not funny.
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2008, 04:18:42 PM »
OK, Kari, I think I see the distinction you're making... in your view, this was a protest against the church's stance on homosexuality and shouldn't be called "persecution" because it wasn't a specifically anti-Christian protest, but rather a pro-gay protest. And you agree that what these people did was unacceptable and should be dealt with, regardless of whether it qualifies as "persecution" or something else.
 
If I understand you correctly, we're disagreeing about definitions, and that's fine.
 
If you read a bit more about what these people did, according to news media reports and eyewitness accounts, you'll see that claims are being made that "sexual acts were committed (public lewdness), or that lesbians were kissing in front of the pulpit, or that condoms were thrown around." I know all too well from interviewing people that facts sometimes are different than the initial reports, and this may not be what actually happened. But public pressure does need to be brought to make sure a full investigation occurs by law enforcement and appropriate charges are brought against those who are responsible.
 
And before I get asked the question, this pro-gay protest had two phases -- a perfectly legal sidewalk demonstration in front of the church using bullhorns and signs to draw the church's security personnel outside, and then this horribly offensive protest INSIDE the church. The sidewalk protest was a legally legitimate use of First Amendment free speech rights (though it was stupid and probably would have been counterproductive). The actions of the protesters INSIDE the church are what the legal authorities need to focus on. Those actions went beyond stupid and are illegal.
 
Kari, as long as we both agree that what these gay protesters did inside the church was illegal and they should be arrested, that's fine with me, and whether we want to call it "persecution" or something else is not very important to me.
 
Regards,
DTM
 
 
 
DTM, had this same thing happened in a synagogue, I will feel the same way.  The people that did this should be jailed for what they did.  From what I read, they had pro-gay banners, not anti-Christian banners (ie., nothing was written saying anything the banners were directed against Christians, except the Jesus being gay, BUT I've met many gay Christians that do believe it was so).  I read no where that sexual acts were committed (public lewdness), or that lesbians were kissing in front of the pulpit, or that condoms were thrown around.  Though you may not feel they are, it is possible some of those that committed that horrendous act may be of the Christian faith, just not the main stream Christian faith.
 
Comparing what those disgraceful idiots did, to that of painting swastikas (a sign of hate directed towards Jews, a sign that millions died under) on a synagogue or on Jewish tombstones is not possible.  One is a hate crime, the other a disgusting, disgraceful, disrepectful, and uncalled for act.  As I said, I would feel the same way.  They should be arrested, but I do not see it as persecution, even if it was done in a synagogue.
 
I've, personally, been through religious persecution.  There is a big difference.
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Offline Coyote

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2008, 04:44:27 PM »
Can't you realize that YOU are the minority?
 

Another case of minorities seeking special treatment, eh fishie poo?
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Offline kari

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2008, 05:03:10 PM »
OK, Kari, I think I see the distinction you're making... in your view, this was a protest against the church's stance on homosexuality and shouldn't be called "persecution" because it wasn't a specifically anti-Christian protest, but rather a pro-gay protest. And you agree that what these people did was unacceptable and should be dealt with, regardless of whether it qualifies as "persecution" or something else.
 
If I understand you correctly, we're disagreeing about definitions, and that's fine.
 
If you read a bit more about what these people did, according to news media reports and eyewitness accounts, you'll see that claims are being made that "sexual acts were committed (public lewdness), or that lesbians were kissing in front of the pulpit, or that condoms were thrown around." I know all too well from interviewing people that facts sometimes are different than the initial reports, and this may not be what actually happened. But public pressure does need to be brought to make sure a full investigation occurs by law enforcement and appropriate charges are brought against those who are responsible.
 
And before I get asked the question, this pro-gay protest had two phases -- a perfectly legal sidewalk demonstration in front of the church using bullhorns and signs to draw the church's security personnel outside, and then this horribly offensive protest INSIDE the church. The sidewalk protest was a legally legitimate use of First Amendment free speech rights (though it was stupid and probably would have been counterproductive). The actions of the protesters INSIDE the church are what the legal authorities need to focus on. Those actions went beyond stupid and are illegal.
 
Kari, as long as we both agree that what these gay protesters did inside the church was illegal and they should be arrested, that's fine with me, and whether we want to call it "persecution" or something else is not very important to me.
 
Regards,
DTM
Of course we agree that what the protesters did inside the church was wrong!  I would say the same had it been a Mosque!  It sounds, from what you just wrote about the outside protesters distracting the Church's security (how sad, they need security), that the protesters on the inside committed the act of trespassing. 
 
We have the right to free speech, BUT that was not a matter of free speech.  What they did was totally and completely uncalled for, and they should be prosecuted for all crimes they committed.  I wonder if those involved realize they did NOT help their cause?  All they succeeded in doing is turn many away from their cause. 
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Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2008, 05:56:14 PM »
I don't have time to read everyone's post right now, so someone may have already touched on what I am about to say.

Christians are denounced by a group that they openly oppose and its called persecution.

Any other group is denounced and openly protested by Christians and its called religious freedom and freedom of speech.

Why?

Why is it ok for one but not the other?

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2008, 06:09:07 PM »
I don't have time to read everyone's post right now, so someone may have already touched on what I am about to say.

Christians are denounced by a group that they openly oppose and its called persecution.

Any other group is denounced and openly protested by Christians and its called religious freedom and freedom of speech.

Why?

Why is it ok for one but not the other?

Because man, those people CHOSE to be gay....
 
the other people didn't choose to be christians.. they were born that way....
 
 
no.. wait..  no, yeah. thats right.  right?

Offline Coyote

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2008, 07:31:34 PM »
The bad guys...bad gay rights people, came into the house of these christians and disrupted their freedom of religion...For them to protest on the sidewalk is one thing, but to commit sexual acts to disrupt their church service(public lewdness), or lesbians kissing in front of the pulpit, or throwing condoms around.  WoW that REALLY does put the Gay Rights one step closer to being accepted...don't you think?
 
I don't have time to read everyone's post right now, so someone may have already touched on what I am about to say.

Christians are denounced by a group that they openly oppose and its called persecution.

Any other group is denounced and openly protested by Christians and its called religious freedom and freedom of speech.

Why?

Why is it ok for one but not the other?
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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2008, 08:01:45 PM »
The bad guys...bad gay rights people, came into the house of these christians and disrupted their freedom of religion...For them to protest on the sidewalk is one thing, but to commit sexual acts to disrupt their church service(public lewdness), or lesbians kissing in front of the pulpit, or throwing condoms around.  WoW that REALLY does put the Gay Rights one step closer to being accepted...don't you think?
 

It might not get them any closer to their goal, but it sure must have been funny. It certainly is funny reading about it. He he.
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2008, 08:10:53 PM »

Would you chuckle if a group did these things in your home, or a club to which you belong?
 
Or if people painted Nazi symbols on a synagogue or burned a cross on the lawn of an African-American church?
 
If so, you're consistent. If not, please explain why you believe Christians deserve less protection under the law for exercising their First Amendment rights.
 
Regards,
DTM

I would laugh if people would have come into a club of mine and did those things. It's pretty funny. Well, anyone know if they were used condoms or not? It would be pretty disgusting if they threw used condoms. That might upset me.
 
Let them come in my home and try that. We have guns and sh1t at my house. Someone in my house could get "rid" of them quickly for trespassing. Gotta love the Castle Doctrine.
 
There is a difference between symbols of hate and being stupid and gay. Nazi symbols and burning crosses are symbols of hate, two chicks kissing and condoms are stupid and gay. One will get you a hate crime charge, the other is going to get you a chuckle from me.
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2008, 08:19:02 PM »
I figured I better explain myself before I get jumped all over for saying two chicks kissing and condoms are stupid and gay. First off, anybody who knows me knows I don't think two chicks kissing is stupid. I don't even necessarily think it is gay. It could be super hot and cool. It all depends on the two chicks.
 
And yes, I do think condoms are stupid and gay. The only thing they really are good for is preventing AIDS. Since I am not gay, there isn't really a chance for me to catch AIDS. It was called GRID for a reason. Since I am neither gay nor related to a gay, I am pretty safe there. Plus condoms suck. As for pregnancy protection, they don't work 100% of the time. The only thing that works 100% of the time is abortion. It is the safest and most effective form of birth control there is. At least that is what I think without having done any research what-so-ever. I think like Colbert, with my gut. And right now my gut is telling me I am hungry. My gut is smart.
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Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2008, 08:53:15 PM »
Hi, Kari... hope I didn't cause you to think I doubted that you strongly disagreed with the actions of these gay protesters. You've said all along that what they did was illegal and they should be arrested.
 
Unfortunately, some of the people on the radical left, perhaps because of anarchistic tendencies, seem to think they are actually winning battles and being brave because of actions like this. If the police and prosecutors do what they are supposed to do, and if their actions get widespread publicity, maybe they'll be proved wrong. Maybe.
 
Regards,
Darrell Todd Maurina
 
 
Of course we agree that what the protesters did inside the church was wrong!  I would say the same had it been a Mosque!  It sounds, from what you just wrote about the outside protesters distracting the Church's security (how sad, they need security), that the protesters on the inside committed the act of trespassing.  We have the right to free speech, BUT that was not a matter of free speech.  What they did was totally and completely uncalled for, and they should be prosecuted for all crimes they committed.  I wonder if those involved realize they did NOT help their cause?  All they succeeded in doing is turn many away from their cause.
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Offline kari

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2008, 09:20:31 PM »
Hi, Kari... hope I didn't cause you to think I doubted that you strongly disagreed with the actions of these gay protesters. You've said all along that what they did was illegal and they should be arrested.
 
Unfortunately, some of the people on the radical left, perhaps because of anarchistic tendencies, seem to think they are actually winning battles and being brave because of actions like this. If the police and prosecutors do what they are supposed to do, and if their actions get widespread publicity, maybe they'll be proved wrong. Maybe.
 
Regards,
Darrell Todd Maurina
DTM... No, I had no doubt that you knew how I felt, so don't sweat it!
 
In a way, I THINK, what prE4chEr may have been saying is (not having to do with the Church), he finds the visual description of people acting so strangely to be funny.  Not that they went into a Church, and acted the horrid way they did.  Some people (myself included at times) have a "dark humor".  Not a bad humor, just different.  Example, I make jokes alot about some of the adversities I've experienced in life.  Many people find this horrible that I can make light of such things, whereas others appreciate the dark humor.  PrE4chEr seems to be someone who enjoys the shock factor, though I can be wrong.  If nothing else, for the most part he does make people think, question, and overall that is a good thing.
 
I have to add... from what I've seen, most everyone on these forums do an excellent job of voicing their opinions, the majority do not resort to name calling, and I don't remember seeing any threats (so far! lol)  I've been VERY impressed with these forums!
 
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2008, 09:43:59 PM »
Honestly, I wouldn't be part of or support any group who would go into a church and do what they did. I do find it humorous, but I still think it is wrong. I wouldn't mind them doing it outside of the church, but off of the church grounds. Much like the people who protest abortion clinics. There is a right way to do things, and they most certainly didn't do it the right way.
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Offline kari

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Re: christians being persecuted
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2008, 09:50:17 PM »
I figured I better explain myself before I get jumped all over for saying two chicks kissing and condoms are stupid and gay. First off, anybody who knows me knows I don't think two chicks kissing is stupid. I don't even necessarily think it is gay. It could be super hot and cool. It all depends on the two chicks.
 
And yes, I do think condoms are stupid and gay. The only thing they really are good for is preventing AIDS. Since I am not gay, there isn't really a chance for me to catch AIDS. It was called GRID for a reason. Since I am neither gay nor related to a gay, I am pretty safe there. Plus condoms suck. As for pregnancy protection, they don't work 100% of the time. The only thing that works 100% of the time is abortion. It is the safest and most effective form of birth control there is. At least that is what I think without having done any research what-so-ever. I think like Colbert, with my gut. And right now my gut is telling me I am hungry. My gut is smart.
You don't honesty believe because you are heterosexual that you are safe from AIDS?  Are you 100% sure every female you had sex with didn't have sex with someone who may have been bi, or didn't have AIDS, veneral warts, hep C, etc.?
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