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Author Topic: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party  (Read 12087 times)

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Offline DJ Buzz

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Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« on: December 01, 2008, 02:05:52 AM »

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Just a quick shout out that on Saturday Night, 6 December, 9 pm until Close, Twilight Zone will be holding a RAVE/Dance party!!! Some great European techno, todays hottest dances mixes, drink specials and fun for all. All women get in FREE!!! Come check it out!!! The mechanical bull will be running wild!!!!
 :yahoo: :jester:

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2008, 08:50:51 AM »
Sounds like people will have an "ecstatic" time. Can you say "drug busts"?
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Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2008, 10:38:09 AM »
Sounds like people will have an "ecstatic" time. Can you say "drug busts"?

Preacher, you're coming close to the legal definition of libel here. Do you have evidence that ecstasy or other illegal drugs are being used at this establishment? Better yet, can you point to a conviction or arrest for use of illegal drugs at that establishment, or at least court papers being filed making that allegation? If not, I think you'd better back off REAL quick.
 
Rick, I'd recommend you **NOT** delete this post and leave it up as a warning to others. But that's your call, not mine.
 
Regards,
DTM
Darrell Todd Maurina
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Offline DJ Buzz

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2008, 02:03:39 PM »
Thanks for your assist DTM. This event will of course be closely monitored by club security and management just like all events. No illegal activity will be tolerated. This will be a great event that all can enjoy.

Offline mark

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2008, 02:29:14 PM »
  Who's playing on the 5th?
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2008, 02:52:19 PM »
Yeah, umm, I don't think your definition of libel on this is correct. I agree with most the stuff you say, but I am not accusing anyone of anything. It is common knowledge that raves are frequently attended by people who use the drug ecstacy. In fact, Raves were created by a subculture of "club drug" users(cocaine, MDMA, Ketamin, meth). I have yet to go to a rave that didn't have people "rolling". Seriously, have you ever tried to listen to Bad Boy Bill, Paul Oakenfold, Sasha and Digweed, Alice DeeJay, Ian van Dahl, Roni Size, or Carl Cox sober. Techno sucks sober.
 
I also don't think the owners will be "allowing" it to happen. That is where the drug bust comment comes in. I haven't been to Twilight in a while, but the last time I went they had exceptional security. I am sure the rave will be no different. Since I am not accusing them of condoning it, how could it be considered libel? Although I do think I would be legally safe in making these general statements. If you host a rave, you would be naive to not expect drug use. If you don't, it would be like hosting a Skrewdriver concert and then getting pissed when neo nazis show up. Everyone knows the majority of the people who go to raves use drugs. I am not saying that is what the owners of Twilight are doing. They are probably just trying it out to see if people around here want it. I am sure that if there is a big drug problem, they probably won't want to host another one.
 
However, I am curious as to whether or not the owners of Twilight Zone have stocked up on water more than usual. Honestly, I am not trying to insinuate anything here. I am just saying that it is vital to have an abundance of water. Dehydration is a big problem at raves. The host of the rave needs to be prepared. They need to make sure they have enough water, and they may want to have some paramedics ready. You never know.
(\__/)
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Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2008, 03:41:59 PM »
Thanks for your assist DTM. This event will of course be closely monitored by club security and management just like all events. No illegal activity will be tolerated. This will be a great event that all can enjoy.

Thanks, DJBuzz.
 
FYI for everyone... the standard modern legal definition that determines how libel cases are evaluated is New York Times v Sullivan, a several-decades-old court case which distinguishes between public officials, public figures, limited public figures and private figures. Of course, that builds on a key precedent that dates back to colonial days: the concept that truth is an absolute defense against libel. A New York City colonial jury used "jury nullification" to refuse to convict on libel charges filed by the colonial governor of New York City against a newspaperman on the grounds that the accusations of corruption he was making were true, and that became part of settled constitutional law after the American Revolution and framing of the Constitution.
 
There are other key factors in the evaluation such as the "fair comment and criticism" doctrine -- which basically states that because opinion can't be proven true or false, reviewers and political commentators can use virtually any term of criticism as long as it's a statement of opinion. That means many of the things that get people the angriest actually are not grounds for a libel lawsuit at all.
 
Additional mitigating factors are too long to list, and that's why it's virtually impossible to win a successful libel suit and defend an appeal. Juries sometimes get angry at the media and issue a verdict based on emotion rather than the law with a large monetary award that is virtually always overturned on appeal. But it is all too easy to file a complaint and force a newspaper to convince a judge that the lawsuit has no merit. And if the case has some merit because of stupid decisions by a reporter, it can take years to fight the case.
 
The key factor in New York Times v Sullivan is that the Supreme Court determined that just because a reporter makes a mistake, the media organ isn't automatically guilty of libel if the error is inadvertent and unintentional, isn't made with reckless disgregard for the truth, isn't made with actual malice, and doesn't meet several other standards -- but only if the people targeted are public officials or public figures, who have other recourses for false statements made about them and have voluntarily inserted themselves into the sphere of public discourse. That's why the National Enquirer gets away with its activities covering movie stars and politicians. New York Times v Sullivan is good law because it prevents politicians from using the courts to stifle discussion, but it does allow a lot of stuff that ethical reporters siimply do not do.
 
An example of that is criminal allegations. Wild stuff can be and is often alleged against public officials and public figures. (Think of the garbage circulated against both Barack Obama and Sarah Palin.) But to accuse someone who is NOT a public official or public figure of a crime is virtually prima facie libel unless there's some proof. To imply criiminal activity is only slightly less likely to be viewed as libelous by the courts if there is no proof whatsoever.
 
That's why I jumped on this issue with the Twilite Zone immediately. And it is why newspapers routinely do not print names of people who have been arrested until they have been charged with a crime or at least booked, and it's why I printed my photograph on Saturday of an arrestee with his back to the camera so he couldn't be identified. I know exactly who the guy in my photo is and legally I could get away with running his photo, address, and all kinds of other stuff about his background. But that's pushing the edges of legality and I'm not going to do that for people who are not elected officials, candidates for office, prominent business owners, or other public figures.
 
Regards,
DTM
Darrell Todd Maurina
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2008, 04:22:16 PM »
But to accuse someone who is NOT a public official or public figure of a crime is virtually prima facie libel unless there's some proof. To imply criiminal activity is only slightly less likely to be viewed as libelous by the courts if there is no proof whatsoever.

So what you are saying is that it is libelous to imply criminal activity when there is none. Since libel can be criminal, you are committing libel by saying that I have made libelous comments when I have not. Don't worry, I'm not vindictive like that. Man, law is fun. Tout a l'heure.(Tootaloo)
(\__/)
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Offline freethinker

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2008, 04:50:35 PM »
Sounds like people will have an "ecstatic" time. Can you say "drug busts"?

Hmmm... DTM, it seems that he was implying that people would most likely be using illegal drugs. Not that the club itself would be supplying them. Just by broadcasting the party as a "rave with great techno and house music" they are inviting people to pop some X and drop in. Unintentionally or not. People who enjoy such activities rarely get an opportunity to go do it locally outside thier own homes.
 
I'd say there is a 100% possability that at least SOME people show up for just that sort of thing...   techno music, lots of people [women], lights....  yeah.   
 
They may even have to deal with some local yahoo who decides its a perfect opportunity to sell some ecstasy while he is there.   So I think Preacher raises a valid point...

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2008, 04:55:44 PM »
I was attempting to be less abrasive.
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Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2008, 05:51:57 PM »
So what you are saying is that it is libelous to imply criminal activity when there is none. Since libel can be criminal, you are committing libel by saying that I have made libelous comments when I have not. Don't worry, I'm not vindictive like that. Man, law is fun. Tout a l'heure.(Tootaloo)

I was attempting to be less abrasive.

Preacher, I do appreciate your desire to be "less abrasive."
 
Actually, libel is virtually always handled as a civil rather than a criminal offense, though there is still such a thing as "criminal libel" on the statute books of some states. Most people get more satisfaction out of seeing money in their pocketbooks from a civil case than seeing a reporter in jail from a criminal case. And most prosecuting attorneys are very leery of even considering filing a criminal libel case against a reporter.
 
And my comment was carefully worded to be a caution and a warning, not an accusation: "Preacher, you're coming close to the legal definition of libel here."
 

Hmmm... DTM, it seems that he was implying that people would most likely be using illegal drugs. Not that the club itself would be supplying them. Just by broadcasting the party as a "rave with great techno and house music" they are inviting people to pop some X and drop in. Unintentionally or not. People who enjoy such activities rarely get an opportunity to go do it locally outside thier own homes. I'd say there is a 100% possability that at least SOME people show up for just that sort of thing...   techno music, lots of people [women], lights....  yeah. They may even have to deal with some local yahoo who decides its a perfect opportunity to sell some ecstasy while he is there.   So I think Preacher raises a valid point...

Responding to Freethinker's post, I fully agree with you that Preacher's intent probably wasn't to accuse Twilite Zone of illegal activity. Unfortunately, he came close to doing that without clearly crossing the line, and that's the kind of thing that can risk lawsuits. All it takes is for one person to pay a filing fee and then have a judge decide that there's enough evidence to warrant a trial before a jury, and the result is a whole bunch of attorneys make a lot of money in a case that will be tied up in court for years. I don't think Preacher wants to have to prove to a judge and jury that he didn't act "with malice aforethought" and in "reckless disregard of the truth," and I know for sure Rick Lepard doesn't want to have to waste his time in court proving that he didn't act recklessly in failing to immediately stop this discussion.
 
My comments are intended to help, not to accuse, by taking a potentially actionable discussion and turning it into a learning opportunity. I've got no beef with Twilite Zone, Area 151, Club Oasis, Torches, or any other club in this area -- I don't patronize them, I don't attack them, and I'm interested in what they do at the point that they either 1) bring in a big-name entertainer of wide interest, or 2) get involved with the police or legal system due to something they probably never wanted to happen and probably did everything they could to prevent.
 
If we can all agree that Twilite Zone has good security and will try to stop any illegal drug use that might occur, there's no need to continue the conversation. I've made my point and don't see a need to say more. Personally, I assume every club in this area has pretty good security based on the legitimate concern of Fort Leonard Wood for the welfare of its soldiers, as well as the goodwill desire of any businessman with a brain to assure his customers that they're going to be safe.
 
But I am seriously concerned when I see public allegations of criminal activity being made without proof. It's stuff like that that gets people hauled into court and runs the risk of creating bad precedents that the working press then have to suffer under. The state of internet media law is very fuzzy at the moment and the last thing I want is to see this message board cited in a libel lawsuit, because that **WILL** affect every other reporter in the state of Missouri who participates in message boards or blogs.
Darrell Todd Maurina
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2008, 06:03:17 PM »
If you feel the need to delete my post, I understand. I won't agree with the decision, but it won't bother me. I am a guest in someone else's house. If they need to clean it up a bit, that is fine with me.
 
But I didn't commit libel. I don't attend clubs around here either. I have no allegiance to any. My allegiance is to the rave. J/K. I just know what it's generally like. I am sure the setting at Twilight Zone will be legit. They will have top of the line security. I am sure there will be a few undercovers who attend as well. If there isn't, the police aren't doing their job. I am sure they aren't going to say anything, and you wouldn't notice them from Adam. They are going to be there though. Twilight Zone won't even know about them. They will just be regular people partying there. Or maybe this is some movie I saw. It very well could be. Was it based on reality though? Who knows what a rave in the Saint will be like? Certainly not me.
 
I am not so sure about using "the Saint". I am just trying it on.
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Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2008, 06:21:45 PM »
Actually, I don't have the authority to delete any posts. And I think a discussion of libel law is more valuable than just deleting anything -- and I recommended that right at the beginning to Rick Lepard, who is the one who makes decisions about deleting things.
 
Explaining the reasons for actions when they're approaching a borderline is usually more helpful than just taking action unilaterally once the border has been crossed.
 
And what you said in the post quoted below is all I think any club could want. No more problem on my end. I know a bit about the security at several of the local clubs, based on voluntary explanations and offers of walk-throughs by management, and have been impressed with what I've seen. Bad stuff can and does happen no matter how good security is -- all a club owner can do is take the necessary precautions in advance.
 
Regards,
DTM
 
If you feel the need to delete my post, I understand. I won't agree with the decision, but it won't bother me. I am a guest in someone else's house. If they need to clean it up a bit, that is fine with me.
 
But I didn't commit libel. I don't attend clubs around here either. I have no allegiance to any. My allegiance is to the rave. J/K. I just know what it's generally like. I am sure the setting at Twilight Zone will be legit. They will have top of the line security. I am sure there will be a few undercovers who attend as well. If there isn't, the police aren't doing their job. I am sure they aren't going to say anything, and you wouldn't notice them from Adam. They are going to be there though. Twilight Zone won't even know about them. They will just be regular people partying there. Or maybe this is some movie I saw. It very well could be. Was it based on reality though? Who knows what a rave in the Saint will be like? Certainly not me.
 
I am not so sure about using "the Saint". I am just trying it on.
Darrell Todd Maurina
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Offline DJ Buzz

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2008, 08:51:45 PM »
WOW this thread really did take a turn!! LOLOL The main intention I had was to let everyone know about a "RAVE" Dance Party at the Twilite Zone. I think all types of genres of music should be represented from Country, R&B, HipHop, Disco, Rock, Techno etc with the different clubs in the area. There are so many stereotypes of what happens at each type of event with each genre. The main focus is to provide a fun and safe environment that all can enjoy. I can't remember if there has been an event like this in the Tri-Cities. In reference to the question above...Friday Night, 5 Dec, 9PM until Close Kricket Alley will be playing at the Zone on the pool table side. The Saturday night event will kick off at 9PM on 6 Dec. And as usual all women get in free at the Twilite Zone.

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2008, 09:09:21 PM »
Don't worry. People will know about it. How often can people rave in this town? There will probably be a bunch of people from out of town. If you were really looking for money. I would have advertised in Springfield at Kaleidoscope and Cosmic Fish. People would come just for the electronic music. If you play some aphrodite and Roni Size, they will come. The people on here aren't really your demographics. I might have been at some point, but I am not in to all of that stuff right now.
(\__/)
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Offline mark

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2008, 09:21:33 PM »
Don't worry. People will know about it. How often can people rave in this town? There will probably be a bunch of people from out of town. If you were really looking for money. I would have advertised in Springfield at Kaleidoscope and Cosmic Fish. People would come just for the electronic music. If you play some aphrodite and Roni Size, they will come. The people on here aren't really your demographics. I might have been at some point, but I am not in to all of that stuff right now.
Peacher is growing up. Pretty soon he's going to quit the pot and start attending church.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2008, 09:31:14 PM »
Yea, because being "grown up" means that you go to Church.

Sure.

Offline DJ Buzz

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2008, 09:33:59 PM »
Thanks for the assist preacher. I am brinigng in a lot of stuff from Europe and Ibiza. Plus I will have to mix in some of the remixes of todays hits. Should be fun for all.

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2008, 09:54:43 PM »
Yea, because being "grown up" means that you go to Church.

Sure.
That's right DN looks like your growing up too!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2008, 10:56:56 PM »
Thanks for the assist preacher. I am brinigng in a lot of stuff from Europe and Ibiza. Plus I will have to mix in some of the remixes of todays hits. Should be fun for all.

You should definitily incorporate Sasha and Digweed's "Enjoy the Silence". It is from Sasha and Digweed's Cd "Northern Exposure 2". It is the perfect end of the night song. Check it out.
 
I also suggest Alice DeeJays "Better off alone" off of "Who needs guitars anyways?".
 
I also like Bad Boy Bills Cd "Bangin the Box Vol. 3". You just have to hear it. It is some crazy stuff. People will like it.'
 
Also, Aphrodite is some good drum and bass. They remix some popular stuff. I like "I got 5 on it" and "Ready or Not".
 
Check out Roni Size Reprezant. It might not be that popular, but it ought to be. If you listen to it, you will see what I mean. Check out "Brown Paper Bag".
 
Have you listened to any GRIME music? They use a lot of technoish beats. People like it, they just don't know they like it. They like "Paper Planes" by M.I.A. They haven't heard of Dizzee Rascal or Lady Sovereign. I like "Dress Up, Look Sharp" and "I luv U" by Dizzee Rascal. He is talented. For more localized drum and bass rap, check out Tech N9NE. His "It's Alive" is a great freakin technoish song. For M.I.A., check out "Come Around" with Timberland. It is an amazing song. People will love you for introducing it to them.
 
 
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Offline Lepard LLC

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2008, 11:12:52 PM »
I beg to differ, you are refering to the people who write in here. Area 151 had 3000 click throughs on their ads in the first month, I doubt that was mostly nosy old folks. The poeple coming to this site are of all ages and some live here and some are moving here. Younger people aren't interested in getting involved in whats talked about in here for sure, but they are here, for sure.
 
 
 
 
Don't worry. People will know about it. How often can people rave in this town? There will probably be a bunch of people from out of town. If you were really looking for money. I would have advertised in Springfield at Kaleidoscope and Cosmic Fish. People would come just for the electronic music. If you play some aphrodite and Roni Size, they will come. The people on here aren't really your demographics. I might have been at some point, but I am not in to all of that stuff right now.

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2008, 11:15:15 PM »
I beg to differ, you are refering to the people who write in here. Area 151 had 3000 click throughs on their ads in the first month, I doubt that was mostly nosy old folks. The poeple coming to this site are of all ages and some live here and some are moving here. Younger people aren't interested in getting involved in whats talked about in here for sure, but they are here, for sure.

I didn't mean to offend you Rick. I am sure people who have heard it here first are planning on going. I just don't think anyone who cares about what I write will be attending. The people who want to go to a rave are going to go regardless of what I say.
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Offline Lepard LLC

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2008, 11:17:04 PM »
Not offended, just pointing out that the 25,000 visitors per month aren't all old.
 

I didn't mean to offend you Rick. I am sure people who have heard it here first are planning on going. I just don't think anyone who cares about what I write will be attending. The people who want to go to a rave are going to go regardless of what I say.

Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2008, 01:06:39 AM »
What's wrong with old? DTM is that slander or libel? j/k, don't get your drawers in a tangle anyone.
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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2008, 07:39:51 PM »

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Twilight Zone- RAVE & Dance Party
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2008, 12:03:37 AM »
How did it go?

I was out of town.