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Author Topic: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism  (Read 90747 times)

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Offline kari

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #240 on: February 13, 2009, 07:49:28 PM »

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Now, back to the subject at hand.... Fish, read The Clergy Letter Project  http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/Christian_Clergy/ChrClergyLtr.htm
This is the Christian Letter:
"Within the community of Christian believers there are areas of dispute and disagreement, including the proper way to interpret Holy Scripture. While virtually all Christians take the Bible seriously and hold it to be authoritative in matters of faith and practice, the overwhelming majority do not read the Bible literally, as they would a science textbook. Many of the beloved stories found in the Bible – the Creation, Adam and Eve, Noah and the ark – convey timeless truths about God, human beings, and the proper relationship between Creator and creation expressed in the only form capable of transmitting these truths from generation to generation. Religious truth is of a different order from scientific truth. Its purpose is not to convey scientific information but to transform hearts.        We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth."
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline fish

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #241 on: February 13, 2009, 09:47:55 PM »
"Many of the beloved stories found in the Bible – the Creation, Adam and Eve, Noah and the ark – convey timeless truths about God, human beings, and the proper relationship between Creator and creation expressed in the only form capable of transmitting these truths from generation to generation."
they are contradicting themselves. that is their opinion, I don't agree with it. doesn't mean I'm wrong and they are right or vice versa.
there is another factor no one is mentioning. could evolution be a tool of the devil to decieve people about creation and suggesting create doubt in God's work and peresence?? deception is the devils greatest tool.

Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #242 on: February 13, 2009, 09:55:39 PM »
Career politicians are a result of evolution.  Their arrogance, tendencies to deceive, and narcissistic personalities can only be attributed to the offspring of weasels having anal sex.

Offline freethinker

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #243 on: February 14, 2009, 05:12:26 AM »
that is their opinion, I don't agree with it. doesn't mean I'm wrong and they are right or vice versa.

there is another factor no one is mentioning. could evolution be a tool of the devil to decieve people about creation and suggesting create doubt in God's work and peresence?? deception is the devils greatest tool.

actually fish, if they have an opinion and you have a differing opinion... at least one of you has to be wrong...  thats how the world works..
 
 
You can't claim that the devil has the power of god ONLY when it comes to his deception. if there is in fact a devil as the bible claims, he has no domain on this world.  he doesn't have the power of god to create natural laws that can be tested repeatably. even MOST creationists admit that evolution can be proven to some extent, so explain the devils hand in that....
not to mention the fact that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE DEVIL.   how did christians, whose religion started out as judaism, end up having a fire and brimstone devil when the jews believe in no such thing..   oh, thats right.. because christianity is made up by men and based on SOOOOOO many long dead religious ideas... 
 
that is the single most ignorant arguement you can make on this topic fish...  by bringing that into it you just continue to prove that you have no idea what you are talking about and are reaching for whatever straw you can grasp..
 

Offline fish

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #244 on: February 14, 2009, 11:31:28 PM »
read the post again, "objectively" this time. I didn't say anyone was right or wrong, but it isn't rocket science to know someone is. you are just quick to criticize  before reading.

the devil has the power of deception. that is why I "suggested" he could be part of the evolution deal. It makes sense that the devil could be involved because the theory gives an alternate view how life started. it detracts from the fact (and it is a fact) that God created all. that can be proven with logic, evolution cannot.

 the devil influence,another possibility.

Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #245 on: February 15, 2009, 12:00:33 AM »
read the post again, "objectively" this time. I didn't say anyone was right or wrong, but it isn't rocket science to know someone is. you are just quick to criticize  before reading.

the devil has the power of deception. that is why I "suggested" he could be part of the evolution deal. It makes sense that the devil could be involved because the theory gives an alternate view how life started. it detracts from the fact (and it is a fact) that God created all. that can be proven with logic, evolution cannot.

 the devil influence,another possibility.
I agree Fish much of what they teach is the exact opposite of the truth. Man created God etc....Makes me think Devil too.
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We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline freethinker

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #246 on: February 15, 2009, 04:55:08 AM »
LOL LOL
 
the devil's deception can be proven with logic... hahahahahahaha
 
ok, i'm game with that.  let's try another bit of logic...
if god and the devil were indeed real, and fighting for our souls, the devil would have to find a pretty good way to trick people. what better way then to convince a bunch of people he is the son of god. he comes on up to earth, performs a few "miracles" to convince people of who he is, tells everyone that the only way they can get to heaven from now on is through HIS forgiveness, and no matter what sin or commandment you break he WILL forgive you [he died for your sins, even the ones you haven't commited yet. how can that possibly NOT mean he loves you enough to let you break the rules willy nilly?]... but he's smart, so he doesn't change the rules much, just one major one. you can go ahead and sin and still get into heaven, but you have to ask for forgiveness in HIS NAME. not from god, but from "jesus son of god"..   this is the best ploy the devil could possibly use. tricking you into worshiping him when you think you are worshiping god through him. "Thou shall not worship false idols"...     so, logically speaking about the devils deception...  there is a pretty good chance that Jesus of Nazareth is the Devil himself, and has tricked billions of people into worshiping him by pretending to be God... boy are they gonna be shocked when they get to hell.
 
it makes sense, seeing all of the blood that has been spilled in the name of Jesus Christ. the greedy and/or homosexual priests, the willingness to pull you shirt over your head and ignore science, et cetera et cetera... i could go all day with reasons why christianity is more evil then good...  not to mention the Jews, you remember that old religion christianity is made from right, they renounced him as a false prophet..  but people went ahead and started a new religion anyway. because christianity is a much easier way to get into heaven. you can basically do whatever you want. as long as you admit to believing in god and ask jesus to forgive you of your sins..  your golden baby..
 
have fun worshiping your false idol, satanists....
 
 
 
 

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #247 on: February 15, 2009, 08:17:16 AM »
LOL LOL
 
the devil's deception can be proven with logic... hahahahahahaha
 
ok, i'm game with that.  let's try another bit of logic...
if god and the devil were indeed real, and fighting for our souls, the devil would have to find a pretty good way to trick people. what better way then to convince a bunch of people he is the son of god. he comes on up to earth, performs a few "miracles" to convince people of who he is, tells everyone that the only way they can get to heaven from now on is through HIS forgiveness, and no matter what sin or commandment you break he WILL forgive you [he died for your sins, even the ones you haven't commited yet. how can that possibly NOT mean he loves you enough to let you break the rules willy nilly?]... but he's smart, so he doesn't change the rules much, just one major one. you can go ahead and sin and still get into heaven, but you have to ask for forgiveness in HIS NAME. not from god, but from "jesus son of god"..   this is the best ploy the devil could possibly use. tricking you into worshiping him when you think you are worshiping god through him. "Thou shall not worship false idols"...     so, logically speaking about the devils deception...  there is a pretty good chance that Jesus of Nazareth is the Devil himself, and has tricked billions of people into worshiping him by pretending to be God... boy are they gonna be shocked when they get to hell.
 
it makes sense, seeing all of the blood that has been spilled in the name of Jesus Christ. the greedy and/or homosexual priests, the willingness to pull you shirt over your head and ignore science, et cetera et cetera... i could go all day with reasons why christianity is more evil then good...  not to mention the Jews, you remember that old religion christianity is made from right, they renounced him as a false prophet..  but people went ahead and started a new religion anyway. because christianity is a much easier way to get into heaven. you can basically do whatever you want. as long as you admit to believing in god and ask jesus to forgive you of your sins..  your golden baby..
 
have fun worshiping your false idol, satanists....

Stop stealing my stuff, bro. You don't see me running around talking about gay stuff in random a** threads. Don't be going to random a** threads talking about Satan being Jesus.
 
Oh. I see what this is about now. I know you. You must be doing it because you are jealous. You must be jealous of my stickied thread. I see. You hate that your thread has a lot more hits, but it lacks the honor bestowed to a thread that's been stickied.
 
You can't let jealousy get to you man. It eats away at your soul, what little that's left to be eaten. Mwoohahaha.
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Offline fish

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #248 on: February 15, 2009, 03:41:13 PM »
read again ft for comprehension this time. the last part of the paragraph I said it is a fact God created all and could be proven with logic, evolution cannot be proven with logic.

if you aren't going to take the time to read, you have no point in your response.but you already know you are going to critisize ,so I suppose reading what you are critisizing is unimportant?  you are becoming irrelevant to the discussion ft.

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #249 on: February 15, 2009, 11:44:45 PM »
Fish, I'm sure you will have no problem proving the existence of God using the scientific method.

read again ft for comprehension this time. the last part of the paragraph I said it is a fact God created all and could be proven with logic, evolution cannot be proven with logic.

if you aren't going to take the time to read, you have no point in your response.but you already know you are going to critisize ,so I suppose reading what you are critisizing is unimportant?  you are becoming irrelevant to the discussion ft.

Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #250 on: February 16, 2009, 12:23:31 AM »
 I can prove it. I just don't know if I can do it on here Typing with one finger while fighting off the demonically possessed. I will continue to try though!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #251 on: February 16, 2009, 12:40:11 AM »
Demonically possessed?

I can prove it. I just don't know if I can do it on here Typing with one finger while fighting off the demonically possessed. I will continue to try though!

Offline ♥♣ ~Maynard~♣♥

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #252 on: February 16, 2009, 12:56:15 AM »
Demonically possessed?
&^&&( :th_th36_1_15: I think Mark believes you got the little guy sitting on your shoulder DN  ;D
Remember I'm a nudist so when you respond to one of my post yor talking to a naked man  :)


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Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #253 on: February 16, 2009, 01:00:42 AM »
  Come to church with me for a couple months or so. We have a nice library with many good books and videos. church is free and checking out books from the library is free. I will do my best to show you (with science and logic) That God exists and is our creator.  Then I will go to the club or where ever you want (the pentagram alter and bonfire in the woods) And you can try and show me that he doesn't.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
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Offline ♥♣ ~Maynard~♣♥

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #254 on: February 16, 2009, 01:06:15 AM »
  Come to church with me for a couple months or so. We have a nice library with many good books and videos. church is free and checking out books from the library is free. I will do my best to show you (with science and logic) That God exists and is our creator.  Then I will go to the club or where ever you want (the pentagram alter and bonfire in the woods) And you can try and show me that he doesn't.
Mark  you arn't talking to me are you?
Remember I'm a nudist so when you respond to one of my post yor talking to a naked man  :)


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Offline merrywhiterose

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #255 on: February 16, 2009, 01:07:23 AM »
How can anyone believe ONE book written by several authors about information that can't be verified? The buybull is such a book. The stories are fables, made up by a bunch of goatherders, probably on a drinking binge. :th_thbeer1-1:

Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #256 on: February 16, 2009, 01:09:50 AM »
Mark  you arn't talking to me are you?
I was talking to D.N. but the offer stands for anyone who would like to go.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline merrywhiterose

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #257 on: February 16, 2009, 01:11:25 AM »
Why waste my time hearing fables when I can sleep in on Sunday and beat all the Fundies to the best restaurants? :lordRick: :j4:

Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #258 on: February 16, 2009, 01:16:09 AM »
  Because maybe you would learn something!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline fish

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #259 on: February 16, 2009, 01:31:22 AM »
there are many references in the bible that are supported by science. by the way, God created science.

Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #260 on: February 16, 2009, 11:11:28 AM »
  The Bible mentions The circle of the earth and ocean trenches. It was written long before anyone could confirm either. (except the maker of course)
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline prE4chEr

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #261 on: February 16, 2009, 12:31:59 PM »
  The Bible mentions The circle of the earth and ocean trenches. It was written long before anyone could confirm either. (except the maker of course)

The bible is wrong again. The earth isn't a circle. It is a sphere.
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Offline freethinker

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #262 on: February 16, 2009, 05:24:26 PM »
read again ft for comprehension this time. the last part of the paragraph I said it is a fact God created all and could be proven with logic, evolution cannot be proven with logic.

if you aren't going to take the time to read, you have no point in your response.but you already know you are going to critisize ,so I suppose reading what you are critisizing is unimportant?  you are becoming irrelevant to the discussion ft.

 
LOL. IM becoming irrelevant to this discussion? You aren't even willing to HAVE a discussion... 
 
 
You have accused me of "not reading" what you write and responding solely to attack your opinion one time too many. 
 
I have offered you, on numerous occassions, a chance to correct yourself on certain words and definitions that you choose to comment on. I do this not to attack your religious beliefs, but so we can all be on the same page when it comes to factual information.  If we are not, the conversation will never progress to the next level.
Do YOU read any of it??? 
I have to assume that you do not, for you continue to define words however you wish to better suit your arguement. There have been others who have tried to correct you on this as well, yet you seem to be quite content with your outright ignorance of both science and the english language. I honestly hope this is the case. The only logical alternative is far worse. More wicked to me then any imaginary devil out to steal a soul....   An under-handed and conscious attempt to breed confusion and misinformation into others for the sole purpose of derailing logic and reason so people will continue to go to church.
Do not be fooled. The Scientific Theory of Evolution is a fact. That fact has greatly improved the scientific knowledge of every other field of study. How? By trying to discover how evolution works, scientists are continously adding to our knowledge of how the world itself works.
Can you honestly not see the ripple effect that would come from getting "rid" of evolution in our school systems? The growth of scientific knowledge across the board would be systematically halted.   Young people across the country would leave college decades behind students from around the world. You are setting up future generations of American's to be reliant on other countries for their medical, technological, and environmental advances. Effectively ending our status as a world power. All for the sole purpose of keeping people in church, so that few may be wealthy at the expense of millions, and the powerful do not lose their political influence.
 
You can call this a crazy "conspiracy theory" of the church trying to take over the country if you want. That's fine, it makes no difference to me. I will point out that every other conspiracy I've heard of is usually done away from the eyes of the public. This one is being broadcast on television every day.
 
Yes fish, I am an atheist and when you say something on this board that I don't agree with I'm going to contradict you. THIS IS NOT ATTACKING YOU. If you feel this way, I'm not even sorry about that. However, I do indeed read everything you write. It is not my fault you have difficulty expressing yourself coherantly. And when you say riduclous things about the devil and his deception, or whatever, I'm going to make fun of you..
And I admit, I have more interest in what you and mark say then I do most others. This is because you two are continuosly offering people information regarding evolution that is filled with false data and can very rarely even be considered science. How can I not critic everything you say, when none of it makes any sense?
 
I am not attacking your religion. I have nothing against people being religious, regardless of my personal beliefs on the matter. I will not, however, stand by quietly while a proven scientific fact is misrepresented and attacked in favor of a series of events that can never be proven, must be taken on faith alone, and continuously offered as "scientifically viable" while the evidence is overwhelmingly stacked against it.  Your "proof" has been rebunked by real scientists all over the world. If anyone has become irrelevant to this discussion it's you.
 
 
p.s.   did you even read any of that?  may i make a prediction as to your response?
 
hmm.. "ft, you didn't read my post carefully. read the last 45 pages "objectively" this time and you'll see my proof."
 
how 'bout mark..  "evolution is only a THEORY! science consistenly proves creation. god created science afterall...."
 
 
 

Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #263 on: February 16, 2009, 05:34:43 PM »

 
LOL. IM becoming irrelevant to this discussion? You aren't even willing to HAVE a discussion... 
 
 
You have accused me of "not reading" what you write and responding solely to attack your opinion one time too many. 
 
I have offered you, on numerous occassions, a chance to correct yourself on certain words and definitions that you choose to comment on. I do this not to attack your religious beliefs, but so we can all be on the same page when it comes to factual information.  If we are not, the conversation will never progress to the next level.
Do YOU read any of it??? 
I have to assume that you do not, for you continue to define words however you wish to better suit your arguement. There have been others who have tried to correct you on this as well, yet you seem to be quite content with your outright ignorance of both science and the english language. I honestly hope this is the case. The only logical alternative is far worse. More wicked to me then any imaginary devil out to steal a soul....   An under-handed and conscious attempt to breed confusion and misinformation into others for the sole purpose of derailing logic and reason so people will continue to go to church.
Do not be fooled. The Scientific Theory of Evolution is a fact. That fact has greatly improved the scientific knowledge of every other field of study. How? By trying to discover how evolution works, scientists are continously adding to our knowledge of how the world itself works.
Can you honestly not see the ripple effect that would come from getting "rid" of evolution in our school systems? The growth of scientific knowledge across the board would be systematically halted.   Young people across the country would leave college decades behind students from around the world. You are setting up future generations of American's to be reliant on other countries for their medical, technological, and environmental advances. Effectively ending our status as a world power. All for the sole purpose of keeping people in church, so that few may be wealthy at the expense of millions, and the powerful do not lose their political influence.
 
You can call this a crazy "conspiracy theory" of the church trying to take over the country if you want. That's fine, it makes no difference to me. I will point out that every other conspiracy I've heard of is usually done away from the eyes of the public. This one is being broadcast on television every day.
 
Yes fish, I am an atheist and when you say something on this board that I don't agree with I'm going to contradict you. THIS IS NOT ATTACKING YOU. If you feel this way, I'm not even sorry about that. However, I do indeed read everything you write. It is not my fault you have difficulty expressing yourself coherantly. And when you say riduclous things about the devil and his deception, or whatever, I'm going to make fun of you..
And I admit, I have more interest in what you and mark say then I do most others. This is because you two are continuosly offering people information regarding evolution that is filled with false data and can very rarely even be considered science. How can I not critic everything you say, when none of it makes any sense?
 
I am not attacking your religion. I have nothing against people being religious, regardless of my personal beliefs on the matter. I will not, however, stand by quietly while a proven scientific fact is misrepresented and attacked in favor of a series of events that can never be proven, must be taken on faith alone, and continuously offered as "scientifically viable" while the evidence is overwhelmingly stacked against it.  Your "proof" has been rebunked by real scientists all over the world. If anyone has become irrelevant to this discussion it's you.
 
 
p.s.   did you even read any of that?  may i make a prediction as to your response?
 
hmm.. "ft, you didn't read my post carefully. read the last 45 pages "objectively" this time and you'll see my proof."
 
how 'bout mark..  "evolution is only a THEORY! science consistenly proves creation. god created science afterall...."
 
 
 
This post does nothing but confirm my theory that the work of the devil is the exact opposite of truth and reality.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline freethinker

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #264 on: February 16, 2009, 05:45:18 PM »
This post does nothing but confirm my theory that the work of the devil is the exact opposite of truth and reality.

oh, so you admit that thats only YOUR theory??  i was under the impression that you learned it in the bible at your church...   how silly of me...
 
way to prove my point that you have nothing of any real value to add to any discussion of evolution..
 
fish?  you ready to take your swing yet?

Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #265 on: February 16, 2009, 06:10:49 PM »
 The theory? I don't know what to call it. I do think He (the devil) has his mitts on you and that's what makes you think and talk opposite.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline Racer

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #266 on: February 16, 2009, 06:21:57 PM »
Oh my goodness, what a statement.  I will pray for you Mark, the Mountain Man.

Offline kari

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #267 on: February 16, 2009, 08:43:37 PM »
The theory? I don't know what to call it. I do think He (the devil) has his mitts on you and that's what makes you think and talk opposite.
Wow, I'm away from the board for just a short time and this is what I come back and see?  Mark, and Fish, give us your PROOF, that such a creature as a Devil exists..... You have nothing, but words that have been changed more times than anyone can count!  We are....is enough proof that we were created, which means there is a Creator.  What ever one wishes to call what ever it was that created us is their opinion/belief.  There is a MAJOR difference between proof of a Creator, which is fact (we're here, something created us!) and trying to convince people of this creature, Devil, you write about.  The Devil you talk about is an invention that began with Christianity.  Your "rationale" that this Devil is the opposite of truth and reality is one of the funniest thing I have read.  To say such a thing says man as no intelligence, and anything that people refuse to accept (that hard fact PROVES) is the work of this funny invention called Devil.  Seems to me, this Devil was invented so that people do not have to accept the responsibility for their actions, as seen with all those TV Preachers that are caught with hookers, in gay sex stings, pedophilia, having an affair.... This Devil, to me, seems to be an excuse for people to do things, blame it on the Devil, then get a free pass when they "cast the Devil off".   
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #268 on: February 17, 2009, 12:07:25 AM »
Alter in the woods?  LOL.  No.  Not quite.  I hate being in the woods.

However, Mark, the devil and I have tea together quite regularly.  LOL.

Boo!


Offline fish

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #269 on: February 17, 2009, 01:43:06 AM »
read your tanakh kari.