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Author Topic: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism  (Read 90750 times)

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Offline kari

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #90 on: February 04, 2009, 05:59:12 PM »

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There is a mitochondrial Eve (Adams wife) The dates given are wrong. Piltdown man is a proven hoax that is still used to prove evolution. Lucy consists of three small bones, but when you see her in textbooks and on the TV she has human feet and is standing tall (no foot bones were found).  I'm not trying to give you a hard time kari, Lets face it your about my age and well.......a hottie. But this subject of creation vrs evolution is near and dear to my heart. I feel the teaching of evolution and excluding God from our lives is the downfall of society.
There are a couple dates given for Mitochondrial Eve, but they all fall within the same time frame.  When did I mention "Piltdown man" or "Lucy", and why in the world would I?

First off, I am older than you, and I would venture to say by quite a few years.  Second, what does my appearance have to do with anything?  I guess I should see that as a compliment, and offer a thank you, but all my appearance shows is that the "junk" DNA, is actually evidence that our ancestors DNA still resides in us.  I am a product of my ancestry, so thank you for the compliment to my ancestry.

You have a right to your beliefs, your feelings, unfortunately when one starts a thread like this, one has to understand that there will be people who disagree and will use scientific reasoning/evidence in response.  I personally do not see any conflict between evolution and a belief in G_D.  Personally, I feel that evolution shows intelligent design, and is a compliment to anyone who has a belief in a Creator.  Evolution is like a rose bud.... we are watching that rose bud blossom!
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline What_The?

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #91 on: February 04, 2009, 06:21:04 PM »
What makes you think I don't? I wish just once you try and add to the conversation. I can find many posts of yours directed at me that say, your stupid, your wrong, you don't help others, you fail. that's all you ever say. Try telling me why!

Because you need someone to point it out to you, that's why.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline ex-ed

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #92 on: February 04, 2009, 09:21:29 PM »
Lucy consists of three small bones ... I feel the teaching of evolution and excluding God from our lives is the downfall of society.

    "Lucy's skeleton, at 40 percent, is the most complete skeleton of any one individual of her age ..." according to http://www.anthro4n6.net/lucy/  Doesn't sound like "three small bones" to me, Mark.
    Bottom line for me in the evolution/creation debate is that it just doesn't matter! I don't believe G-d gave us the Bible to prove the mechanics of His universe. You said in an earlier post that the Bible nor the Torah said anything about evolution, so it must not be true. Neither document says anything about cars, airplaines, or computers, either; does that mean they don't exist?
    I believe G-d gave us His Word to show us how to build a relationship with Him -- G-d to man -- certainly not to explain how he created it all. The Bible is a spiritual guide or tectbook, not a physics text. It tells the story of G-d's relationship with man, beginning with Adam and Eve in the garden, when it was one-on-one; through the Fall, through the pre-pariarch and patriarch times, through the times of the Judges and Kings; through the times of the Prophets, and finally to the New Covenant in Jesus Christ.
    G-d had particular ways of communicating with His people during each of those periods of time, progressing from the one-on-one in the Garden to the separation, to His one-on-one talks with only the chosen leaders, to the sending of angels, to speaking through prophets, to dealing with His people only through the priests, to the sending of His Son, and finally, to the rending of the temple veil that allows each of us back into His presence for one-on-one relationships with Him now.
    If you trace G-d's methods of communicating with His people, it evolves over time, lending credence to the idea that, although G-d himslef is unchangeable, His methods change.
    I, a mere man, cannot allow myself to assume to know exactly how G-d created the universe -- the mechanics, principles, scientific rules and laws, etc. To assume I know that simply from reading the Bible would be, for me, immense pride and arrogance. In Isaiah 55:8 & 9, He says, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."
    Yet this mere man has an open door with this "King of Kings and Lord of Lords," with the "Lord G-d Almighty. My lack of knowledge doesn't stop me from meeting Him face to face, communing with Him by praise and worship, or just spending time with Him in the quiet of an evening.
    I believe a lack of meaningful human relationship with G-d is the downfall of our society. Evolution is a mere idea, and the evolution/creation debate is simply an irritation -- a mosquito in my ear. If all professing Christians and other Sons of Abraham  who visit this board were to spend as much time with G-d as they do in "vain arguments and disputes," our community would be more polite, less argumentative, and a nicer place to play.
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

Offline fish

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2009, 02:13:37 AM »
read genesis kari. God gave us a brain to reason and think,use yours.
 
gen. 2:19 "And out of the ground the Lord God formed every living beast of the field and every bird of the sky,and brought them to the man to see what he would call them;and whatever the man called a living creature that was it's name".

how could this happen with someone not completely formed, mentally and physically?

Offline kari

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2009, 03:15:48 PM »
read genesis kari. God gave us a brain to reason and think,use yours.
 
gen. 2:19 "And out of the ground the Lord God formed every living beast of the field and every bird of the sky,and brought them to the man to see what he would call them;and whatever the man called a living creature that was it's name".

how could this happen with someone not completely formed, mentally and physically?
Once again, it is a simplistic way of explanation for the simple mind.  If you take the Bible literally, then the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old, but it's been proven that the earth is over 4,000,000,000.  Now it comes to the point of pick and choose what parts of the Bible YOU wish to take literally.  As you said, G_D gave us a brain to reason and think, USE YOURS.
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2009, 03:18:27 PM »
 Who proved that?
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline kari

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #96 on: February 05, 2009, 03:47:41 PM »
Who proved that?
It's been proven through a number of ways.... how long it takes light from distance stars (that are now "dead") to reach us, rock formations show the different ages through sedimentation, compression (almost like the rings of trees), core ice samples, one celled algae that bloom in Lake Suigetsu, Japan blooms each spring die and sink into the lake (causing a thin white layer) then sediment throughout the rest of the year covers that layer of algae- they have been able to count (once again, like tree rings) 45,000 years worth of layers (43,000 layers BCE), etc.
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline fish

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2009, 04:53:02 PM »
the age of the earth is irrelevant. evolution is an insult to anyone. to say we came about from a lesser being is an insult. to say a higher being(God) created us , because we and the universe is too complex to just happen or evolve from a lesser being, is a compliment. we are God's greatest creation. adam named the animals, they were already developed. says so in genesis. that alone disproves the evolution chain,for believers anyway. read it again and think about it. man was fully developed and not dragging knuckles,the animals were fully developed and did not evolve. why is the fossil chain incomplete?

Offline Coyote

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2009, 04:57:29 PM »
It's only "man's" opinion.

It's been proven through a number of ways.... how long it takes light from distance stars (that are now "dead") to reach us, rock formations show the different ages through sedimentation, compression (almost like the rings of trees), core ice samples, one celled algae that bloom in Lake Suigetsu, Japan blooms each spring die and sink into the lake (causing a thin white layer) then sediment throughout the rest of the year covers that layer of algae- they have been able to count (once again, like tree rings) 45,000 years worth of layers (43,000 layers BCE), etc.
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline kari

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #99 on: February 05, 2009, 05:07:12 PM »
the age of the earth is irrelevant. evolution is an insult to anyone. to say we came about from a lesser being is an insult. to say a higher being(God) created us , because we and the universe is too complex to just happen or evolve from a lesser being, is a compliment. we are God's greatest creation. adam named the animals, they were already developed. says so in genesis. that alone disproves the evolution chain,for believers anyway. read it again and think about it. man was fully developed and not dragging knuckles,the animals were fully developed and did not evolve. why is the fossil chain incomplete?
So, you do pick and choose what to accept literally from the Bible, interesting.  As I stated before, evolution is not an insult, saying that we've not evolved since man first came into being, is more of an insult because, you are saying that we have not developed, not matured over the years... we have not improved... how sad for you.
The fossil chain is incomplete, and when you realize how much of the earth has not been explored for fossils, the fact that we did not have the technology (and to a great extent still don't) to explore (archaeologically) areas such as ocean bottom, mountain ranges, etc., it's understandable.  Each archaeological dig takes great patience, time, and money.  Earth has many hidden treasures that takes time, and trained personnel to uncover!
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline kari

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #100 on: February 05, 2009, 05:12:50 PM »
It's only "man's" opinion.
Not really, unless you totally disregard science.  To totally disregard science, you must disregard all medical care, medicines, you must disregard man's flight (airplanes), disregard refrigeration systems, disregard electricity, disregard engine design, etc..... Science brought all of this about, there was a theory, the theory was tested, theory was proven (through hard work, many failures), and now we enjoy the benefits of it all.....
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline littlejohn

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #101 on: February 05, 2009, 05:44:08 PM »
Not really, unless you totally disregard science.  To totally disregard science, you must disregard all medical care, medicines, you must disregard man's flight (airplanes), disregard refrigeration systems, disregard electricity, disregard engine design, etc..... Science brought all of this about, there was a theory, the theory was tested, theory was proven (through hard work, many failures), and now we enjoy the benefits of it all.....

Isn't it amazing how HE has given the lowly human being the wisdom, talent, ingenuity and perseverance to develop such "wonders".
You can take the boy out of the Ozarks, but you can't take the Ozarks out of the boy.

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt". - Mark Twain

Offline kari

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #102 on: February 05, 2009, 10:14:27 PM »
Isn't it amazing how HE has given the lowly human being the wisdom, talent, ingenuity and perseverance to develop such "wonders".
That is how someone who believes in a G_D should respond, instead of just denying anything having to do with science!
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #103 on: February 05, 2009, 11:58:57 PM »
 Go to www.drdino.com and hit downloads.  Watch the "Age of the Earth" seminar. Its two hours long with a break in the middle.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline What_The?

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #104 on: February 06, 2009, 12:31:48 AM »
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline kari

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #105 on: February 06, 2009, 01:02:22 AM »
Go to www.drdino.com and hit downloads.  Watch the "Age of the Earth" seminar. Its two hours long with a break in the middle.
Isn't that the same Kent Hovind that was sentenced to 10 years in prison, in 2007?
Let's see what his "credentials" are:
"In 1971 he graduated from East Peoria Community High School in East Peoria, Illinois. From 1972 until 1974 Hovind attended the non-accredited Midwestern Baptist College and received a Bachelor of Religious Education (B.R.E.).[7] In 1988 and 1991 respectively, Hovind was awarded a master's degree and doctorate in Christian Education through correspondence from the non-accredited Patriot University in Colorado Springs, Colorado (now Patriot Bible University in Del Norte, Colorado which no longer offers this program)"

Seems Patriot University allows people to buy their degrees in months instead of years for as little as $25.00 per month..... wow, great alternative for those that want to buy their degrees instead of earning them!

Kent Hovind's "theory" has been debunked by Creationists themselves!
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline shadylane

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #106 on: February 06, 2009, 02:07:04 AM »
the age of the earth is irrelevant. evolution is an insult to anyone. to say we came about from a lesser being is an insult. to say a higher being(God) created us , because we and the universe is too complex to just happen or evolve from a lesser being, is a compliment. we are God's greatest creation. adam named the animals, they were already developed. says so in genesis. that alone disproves the evolution chain,for believers anyway. read it again and think about it. man was fully developed and not dragging knuckles,the animals were fully developed and did not evolve. why is the fossil chain incomplete?
The age of the earth is very relevent, since it proves you are wrong. And who said it was Adam who named the animals? If this was the case their would be only one langauge.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline fish

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #107 on: February 06, 2009, 02:43:36 AM »
genesis says adam named the animals. who cares how old the earth is? it doesn't matter.

Offline freethinker

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #108 on: February 06, 2009, 10:27:45 AM »
genesis says adam named the animals. who cares how old the earth is? it doesn't matter.

you should care how old the earth is. doesn't it it give you an answer for that in the bible?
 
if adam named ALL the animals, why are they still finding new species in the rainforests?
you cant pick and choose with science they way you pick and choose with your bible..
 
go ahead fish, just stick your head in the bible and ignore the world around you.  almost all of it contradicts the idea that your god is real. i wouldn't want to see your head explode.
 
 
seriously..  what school do you teach [substitute?] at?
 
i ask because I want to ensure my kids never go there.....   
 

Offline shadylane

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #109 on: February 06, 2009, 11:26:45 AM »
genesis says adam named the animals. who cares how old the earth is? it doesn't matter.
Everything is relevant, if you are trying to prove a point. If you can't substantiate the majority of your facts, then the rest is also questionable. The book of genesis is full of things that are being proven false. The world marches on and will leave those who live in the past behind. In other words evolve or die.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #110 on: February 06, 2009, 12:03:18 PM »
Everything is relevant, if you are trying to prove a point. If you can't substantiate the majority of your facts, then the rest is also questionable. The book of genesis is full of things that are being proven false. The world marches on and will leave those who live in the past behind. In other words evolve or die.
Coming from the guy who has no facts.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #111 on: February 06, 2009, 12:05:31 PM »
Isn't that the same Kent Hovind that was sentenced to 10 years in prison, in 2007?
Let's see what his "credentials" are:
"In 1971 he graduated from East Peoria Community High School in East Peoria, Illinois. From 1972 until 1974 Hovind attended the non-accredited Midwestern Baptist College and received a Bachelor of Religious Education (B.R.E.).[7] In 1988 and 1991 respectively, Hovind was awarded a master's degree and doctorate in Christian Education through correspondence from the non-accredited Patriot University in Colorado Springs, Colorado (now Patriot Bible University in Del Norte, Colorado which no longer offers this program)"

Seems Patriot University allows people to buy their degrees in months instead of years for as little as $25.00 per month..... wow, great alternative for those that want to buy their degrees instead of earning them!

Kent Hovind's "theory" has been debunked by Creationists themselves!
I know about Hovind and the trouble he's been in. He has however made some very cool seminars. Did you watch them?
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline fish

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #112 on: February 06, 2009, 01:46:36 PM »
the bible proves science and vice versa. it is just the half baked theories that aren't supported by the bible( science has disproven) people get wrapped up about.

school teacher? you guys crack me upLOL LOL

Offline mark

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #113 on: February 06, 2009, 02:25:49 PM »
 I think Hovind and many other "Creation scientists" (Walt Brown, Ken Ham, Etc...) have some very interesting theories about our origins and the age of the earth. Most of which make much more sense that the ridiculously flawed "evolution theory". They admit from the start they are theory's and should probably be viewed as such. Since most scientific theory reverts back to the Bible time and time again, why not start from a biblical perspective and see what turns up. I find it fascinating and wish some of you would do some reading on the subject or watch the videos.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline kari

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #114 on: February 06, 2009, 03:29:46 PM »
I know about Hovind and the trouble he's been in. He has however made some very cool seminars. Did you watch them?
I have to be honest... normally I would watch, but the site you posted requires you to download and save the videos.  I did look over his site.  I also did some research as to how Christian theologians viewed him.  Unfortunately, even Christian Creationists have problems with his theories. 
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Offline What_The?

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #115 on: February 06, 2009, 03:55:17 PM »
The point is that the Bible is not a science book, it is a spiritual book.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #116 on: February 06, 2009, 04:14:52 PM »
I have to be honest... normally I would watch, but the site you posted requires you to download and save the videos.  I did look over his site.  I also did some research as to how Christian theologians viewed him.  Unfortunately, even Christian Creationists have problems with his theories. 
Your loss!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline kari

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #117 on: February 06, 2009, 04:18:57 PM »
Your loss!
Such is life..... guess I will have to try and survive life without such enlightenment.  I do appreciate you wanting to share, but I'm picky as to what I will download onto my computer.  I may see if he has youtube videos....
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Offline freethinker

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #118 on: February 06, 2009, 04:42:12 PM »
I think Hovind and many other "Creation scientists" (Walt Brown, Ken Ham, Etc...) have some very interesting theories about our origins and the age of the earth. Most of which make much more sense that the ridiculously flawed "evolution theory". They admit from the start they are theory's and should probably be viewed as such.

Scientific Theory:  A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.
 
Hypothesis: This is an educated guess based upon observation. It is a rational explanation of a single event or phenomenon based upon what is observed, but which has not been proved. Most hypotheses can be supported or refuted by experimentation or continued observation.
 
So now that we have cleared up your misunderstanding of what a scientific theory is..  let's talk about the "theories" these creation scientists have thought up. It strikes me as odd that people who are content with believing in the biblical account for the origin of life as we know it would dare even offer "theories" on the origins of life. Sounds like blasphemy to me. Or are they inadvertantly admitting that the biblical account is merely another "theory" [im sticking with your understanding of the word so not to confuse you]?   hmmmmmm.....
 
The sad reality is this: Evolution has been proven. You can believe in god all you want, but you can not prove that he exists. I'm talking about visable, measurable, reproducable without a doubt proof. These creation "scientists" are trying to make all the christians out there feel more confident in their world views by offering them "facts" that contradict the findings of over 150yrs of scientific research.  In doing so, the are allowing millions of Americans to continue to have faith and ignore the findings of the scientific community. Since so many people have been fed this disinformation, they have confidence in numbers, then continuosly try to force verifiable scientific evidence out of the schools and force the future generations of this country to look at the world through blinders.
 
 
 
 

Offline Coyote

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Re: uh oh- Astonishing DNA complexity demolishes neo-Darwinism
« Reply #119 on: February 06, 2009, 04:58:06 PM »
Evolution has not been "proven."
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...