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Author Topic: Obama Ineptitude  (Read 1208 times)

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Offline matrsnot

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Obama Ineptitude
« on: May 21, 2009, 04:06:28 PM »


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He is now the President of the United States and he needs to start acting like one instead of continuing his campaign.  He can no longer blame anything on Bush, yet he persists with that agenda.  Obama is the one who opened his mouth and inserted his foot on GITMO.  I don't care about those he wants to imprison in super-max facilities.  But it is all the fault of Bush that Obama made a promise he can't keep without endangering our National Security?  So where is he stealing the money from to get around Congress?
WASHINGTON -- In a scathing attack on the Bush administration, President Obama stood steadfast Thursday in his pledge to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and transfer some terror suspects to federal "supermax" prisons in the United States.
Accusing the Bush administration of creating "a misguided experiment" that created more threats to America, Obama told an audience at the National Archives in Washington, D.C., that the Guantanamo facility will be shuttered by his deadline of January 2010. He also tried to assure that no prisoners who pose a danger to the U.S. will be set free.
"Let me begin by disposing of one argument as plainly as I can: we are not going to release anyone if it would endanger our national security, nor will we release detainees within the United States who endanger the American people," Obama said.
"Where demanded by justice and national security, we will seek to transfer some detainees to the same type of facilities in which we hold all manner of dangerous and violent criminals within our borders -- highly secure prisons that ensure the public safety. As we make these decisions, bear in mind the following fact: nobody has ever escaped from one of our federal 'supermax' prisons, which hold hundreds of convicted terrorists," he continued.
On Wednesday, the Senate rebuked Obama's request for funding to close the Guantanamo prison, withholding on a 90-6 vote $80 million that would go to shutting down the facility until the president presents a plan for what to do with the remaining detainees. That followed a similar move last week in the House, underscoring widespread apprehension among Obama's Democratic allies in Congress over the issue.
Both Democrats and Republicans have faced an uproar in their districts over the possibility that terror suspects would be housed in local prisons, making it more difficult for administration officials to convince European and Muslim allies to take some of the detainees.
The administration got no help Wednesday when FBI Director Robert Mueller told Congress that bringing Guantanamo detainees to the United States could pose a number of risks, even if they were kept in maximum-security prisons. Attorney General Eric Holder quickly responded that Obama would never do anything to endanger Americans.
In announcing the latest approach to Gitmo, Obama offered few concrete details. But he cited Pentagon numbers that show one in seven of the 534 detainees already released from the prison have returned to the battlefield. He used that as evidence that the Bush administration's approach to prosecuting the detainees didn't work.
"We are acutely aware that under the last administration, detainees were released only to return to the battlefield. That is why we are doing away with the poorly planned, haphazard approach that let those detainees go in the past," Obama said.
He said his decision to close Guantanamo did not create the legal challenges that currently exist; those preceded him. But, he said, "if we refuse to deal with these issues today, then I guarantee you that they will be an albatross around our efforts to combat terrorism in the future."
The president announced five categories of prisoner that the administration will use to evaluate the 240 detainees who are still at Guantanamo:
-- Those who have violated American criminal laws and will be tried in federal courts;
-- Those who violated the laws of war and are best tried through military commissions;
-- Those who have been ordered released by the courts;
-- Those who can be transferred safely to another country;
-- Those who cannot be prosecuted, but pose a clear danger to the American people.
Obama defined the final category as detainees who have trained at Al Qaeda camps, commanded Taliban troops in battle, expressed allegiance to Usama bin Laden or "made it clear that they want to kill Americans."
"I want to be honest: this is the toughest issue we will face," Obama said of the final category. "We are going to exhaust every avenue that we have to prosecute those at Guantanamo who pose a danger to our country. But even when this process is complete, there may be a number of people who cannot be prosecuted for past crimes, but who nonetheless pose a threat to the security of the United States."
Early Thursday, Holder announced that the first Al Qaeda suspect held at Guantanamo Bay will be sent to New York to stand trial for the deadly 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Africa. The suspect, Ahmed Ghailani, will stand trial in a civilian criminal court.
"This guy was picked up on the battlefield in Afghanistan," said Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee. But since Ghailani was linked to the embassy bombings, he is being prosecuted on U.S. soil.
"That same kind of evidence, those same kinds of standards weren't in place and aren't in place for many of the other guys," Hoekstra said.
The president used strong language to condemn the Bush administration, claiming a "flood of legal challenges arose" because of how the Guantanamo facility was used. He said those challenges consume the time of "government officials whose time should be spent on better protecting our country."
"The Supreme Court that invalidated the system of prosecution at Guantanamo in 2006 was overwhelmingly appointed by Republican presidents," Obama said. "In other words, the problem of what to do with Guantanamo detainees was not caused by my decision to close the facility; the problem exists because of the decision to open Guantanamo in the first place."
The president said he would refuse "to allow this problem to fester," or for politicization of the issue to prevent solutions. He accused his opponents of "fear-mongering" by suggesting that bringing prisoners to the U.S. will threaten Americans.
"Listening to the recent debate, I've heard words that are calculated to scare people rather than educate them; words that have more to do with politics than protecting our country," he said.
The president rejected the idea of an independent commission that would investigate the whole range of national security issues under the Bush administration.
"I know that these debates lead directly to a call for a fuller accounting, perhaps through an independent commission," he said. But "our existing democratic institutions are strong enough to deliver accountability," he said.
However, Obama's coming up with a plan without congressional input is also a non-starter to some.
"I hope the president doesn't announce a plan for Guantanamo today. You know why? Because if he does, he will have developed a plan, and he will never have consulted with Congress, either Republicans or Democrats, as to what that plan should be," Hoekstra said.
"It's a tough issue ... we ought to be working together to get a resolution to this," he added.
Immediately after Obama spoke, former Vice President Dick Cheney, a strong supporter of the Guantanamo facility, spoke at the conservative American Enterprise Institute.
Cheney had been invited to speak months before, but the timing of the two speeches set up a contrast in the two administrations' approaches. Cheney praised Obama's decision to withhold photos of alleged abuse of detainees by U.S. military abroad.
But he added, "When he faults or mischaracterizes the national security decisions we made in the Bush years, he deserves an answer."

Offline What_The?

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Re: Obama Ineptitude
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2009, 05:34:22 PM »
The day you stop blaming everything on Clinton, is the day you can say
He can no longer blame anything on Bush

Until then, your gums are just flapping in the breeze.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Obama Ineptitude
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2009, 05:48:32 PM »
Yeah,  I know.  it is not Obama's fault he let that alligator mouth override his hummingbird butt.  It is the fault of Bush for imprisoning enemies of this country?  Give me a break.  You guys have absolutely no sense of responsibility for action in some cases inaction.  It is always the fault of the conservatives.  Do I have the correct?  Seems to be what you are saying.  Clinton has not been mentioned here for a long time.  He is unimportant to most people at this time and in this place.  Yeah, he screwed the pooch as well as Monica when he REFUSED to kill Bin Laden.  But he is past history, as I hope Obama will be in 2013.

Offline Coyote

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Re: Obama Ineptitude
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2009, 06:10:07 PM »
I think if we do bring the prisoners to the U.S., they should be spread send one or two to a different prison across the country.  That way they shouldn't be able to conspire with each other, or probably not even be able to find each other.  Then every year, shift them around.
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline SilverFox

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Re: Obama Ineptitude
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 08:21:30 PM »
I failed to see anything mentioned about Clinton in this post, but mabye I over looked it. However, I can take you back in time where Clinton was offered Osama and he refused. Since we are on the subject of Clinton, I will say he had his mind on interns, not terroist. I almost forgot, he did authorized the firing of a 2 million dollar missle up a camels butt for nothing.I wonder if taking control of ole Osama would have changed history. Maybe so, maybe not but it's a thought.

Offline shadylane

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Re: Obama Ineptitude
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2009, 08:23:09 AM »
Guantanamo is just one of the messes that GW and party left for us to clean up.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Obama Ineptitude
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2009, 12:23:35 PM »
Seems Obama kind of lost last night.  Cheney ate his lunch, because he STAYED with the issues and was not trying to campaign for President.  Obama went off on tangents about how his family helped him achieve his "dream".  Who cares?  What matters is the issues and Obama spent his time trying to stay popular instead of making hard decisions regardless of the polls.  Thank you President George W. Obama.

Offline matrsnot

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Offline matrsnot

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Re: Obama Ineptitude
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2009, 04:05:03 PM »
A bit more.  Wait a minute - didn't our resident leftists tell us how horrible Bush was for thinking about something like this?

Oh yes, they did:

The question is how he will deal with his dissenters (terrorists).  Remember the MIAC and the "assessment" from Janet Napolitano?  Those are the people being designated terrorists by Obama and his henchmen.  Yoiu just thought Bush was bad.  This guy is extending powers way beyond what bush thought of. 

Obama Is Said to Consider Preventive Detention Plan
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LinkedinDiggFacebookMixxMySpaceYahoo! BuzzPermalinkBy SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: May 20, 2009
WASHINGTON — President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.

Skip to next paragraph
Later Terror Link Cited for 1 in 7 Freed Detainees (May 21, 2009)
Funds to Close Guantánamo Denied (May 21, 2009)
Judge Issues Split Ruling on Who Can Be Detained (May 21, 2009)
Times Topics: Detainees

The Caucus
The latest on President Obama, the new administration and other news from Washington and around the nation. Join the discussion.

More Politics NewsThe discussion, in a 90-minute meeting in the Cabinet Room that included Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and other top administration officials, came on the eve of a much-anticipated speech Mr. Obama is to give Thursday on a number of thorny national security matters, including his promise to close the detention center at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

Human rights advocates are growing deeply uneasy with Mr. Obama’s stance on these issues, especially his recent move to block the release of photographs showing abuse of detainees, and his announcement that he is willing to try terrorism suspects in military commissions — a concept he criticized bitterly as a presidential candidate.

The two participants, outsiders who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the session was intended to be off the record, said they left the meeting dismayed.

They said Mr. Obama told them he was thinking about “the long game” — how to establish a legal system that would endure for future presidents. He raised the issue of preventive detention himself, but made clear that he had not made a decision on it. Several senior White House officials did not respond to requests for comment on the outsiders’ accounts.

“He was almost ruminating over the need for statutory change to the laws so that we can deal with individuals who we can’t charge and detain,” one participant said. “We’ve known this is on the horizon for many years, but we were able to hold it off with George Bush. The idea that we might find ourselves fighting with the Obama administration over these powers is really stunning.”

The other participant said Mr. Obama did not seem to be thinking about preventive detention for terrorism suspects now held at Guantánamo Bay, but rather for those captured in the future, in settings other than a legitimate battlefield like Afghanistan. “The issue is,” the participant said, “What are the options left open to a future president?”

Mr. Obama did not specify how he intended to deal with Guantánamo detainees who posed a threat and could not be tried, nor did he share the contents of Thursday’s speech, the participants said.

He will deliver the speech at a site laden with symbolism — the National Archives, home to the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Across town, his biggest Republican critic, former Vice President Dick Cheney, will deliver a speech at the American Enterprise Institute.

Mr. Cheney and other hawkish critics have sought to portray Mr. Obama as weak on terror, and their argument seems to be catching on with the public. On Tuesday, Senate Democrats, in a clear rebuke to the White House, blocked the $80 million Mr. Obama had requested in financing to close the Guantánamo prison.

The lawmakers say they want a detailed plan before releasing the money; there is deep opposition on Capitol Hill to housing terrorism suspects inside the United States.

“He needs to convince people that he’s got a game plan that will protect us as well as be fair to the detainees,” said Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, who agrees with Mr. Obama that the prison should be closed. “If he can do that, then we’re back on track. But if he doesn’t make that case, then we’ve lost control of this debate.”

But Mr. Obama will not use the speech to provide the details lawmakers want.

“What it’s not going to be is a prescriptive speech,” said David Axelrod, Mr. Obama’s senior adviser. “The president wants to take some time and put this whole issue in perspective to identify what the challenges are and how he will approach dealing with them.”

Offline fish

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Re: Obama Ineptitude
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2009, 10:58:06 PM »
the us has leased gitmo for years from cuba. W didn't acquire it. it was modified for what it is used for now. it has always had a pupose.
there is a newly completed prison in hardin montana. it was looked at for the detainees. correct me if I am wrong, but if the detainees are on us soil, do they get all the rights we have? I know they got some extended to them at gitmo.