Shoutbox

Refresh History
  • littlebit: Makes sense.
    July 16, 2017, 04:40:28 AM
  • Lepard LLC: Boards will stay open for a place people can find history information longer. I am not allowing anyone to sign up for now because of so many foreginers just wanting to promote their business..
    December 10, 2016, 05:10:27 AM
  • Lepard LLC: Not sure why didn't look, I may be shutting down these message boards..
    November 17, 2016, 12:42:43 AM
  • ~kathy~: rick why is the timestamp showing up a day in advance?
    September 13, 2016, 12:27:46 AM
  • Valor7: What I tried to say is that the actual money would not be there that quick. But a loan against that would work if they are willing to do that.
    August 08, 2016, 01:51:51 PM
  • Lepard LLC: Why so long before it comes online? 911 took out a loan or bond with the known guarantee payment and began building..
    August 08, 2016, 07:46:34 AM
  • Valor7: Actually no it is not, a dependable Revenue stream will not come on line until the 4th quarter of 2017 so 2018 budget will be up in the air, not quite sure what they will have. By 2019 budget all will be well.
    August 04, 2016, 09:27:17 PM
  • Valor7: You mean that tax that the Commissioners would not put on the ballot for so many years? Strange things happened when the citizens got a chance to vote on that issue.
    August 03, 2016, 06:43:06 PM
  • Lepard LLC: Back up is now available withe the new tax..
    August 03, 2016, 05:01:35 PM
  • Valor7: Thanks a lot Ladies!!
    July 29, 2016, 01:16:13 PM
  • littlebit: ((*(*&
    July 27, 2016, 03:47:52 PM
  • ~kathy~: lol
    July 15, 2016, 09:34:56 AM
  • Valor7: A guy could get killed around here while waiting for backup!
    July 13, 2016, 07:31:58 PM
  • Lepard LLC: You are not alone..
    July 13, 2016, 07:28:53 PM
  • Valor7: I just hate it when I talk to myself!!!!
    July 08, 2016, 12:54:09 PM
  • Valor7: I could have worded that better, we talked details, options, the pros and cons of each, in  order to arrive at the best ballot language to present to the voters. Hope that makes this clearer.
    April 15, 2016, 06:36:14 PM
  • Valor7: sorry about the typos still working with just one arm in action
    April 13, 2016, 01:10:42 PM
  • Valor7: Yes and no. We talked details and options until we were blue in the face but I never heardbring it over, it was always the time was not right for the issue to pass. Glad to see the time in now right and I for one shall vote yes on the ballot. I would urge all others to do the sameour county is busting at the seams crimewise and no matter how many bad guys we send off there always seems to someone to replace them. The Sheriff's Office needs the help.
    April 13, 2016, 01:08:35 PM
  • Lepard LLC: Is that true Valor? Did he ask you what you wanted?
    March 01, 2016, 04:55:37 AM
  • Lepard LLC: Gene Newkirk Rick I have waited for a Sheriff to bring it to me on what he wanted. I have pushed Mr long for a while to get it to me. He told me he was close to having or done. Now hopefully the people will get to decide on it. I spoke with Steve about this a few times.
    March 01, 2016, 04:54:54 AM
  • Kimberly: Wow- I have a new name..........
    February 23, 2016, 10:25:15 PM
  • Lepard LLC: Works on mine, improvements are being done here. I may kick back into her a lot and post but working on different technologies right now. Seeing how things interact.
    January 18, 2016, 09:01:20 AM
  • Valor7: Yes it is working. If you need a laugh the wife showed me how to correctly use the silly thing.
    January 04, 2016, 05:32:59 PM
  • Valor7: Think so, mine is trying to work but it is now user and password protected and I dont know mine
    December 17, 2015, 01:32:16 PM
  • "DJ": Is there still a working android app for the PCSD
    December 14, 2015, 08:14:53 PM

Author Topic: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...  (Read 1617 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ex-ed

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 1033
  • Karma: +603114/-25836
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« on: June 09, 2009, 02:56:51 PM »

Share/Bookmark

Fort Wood Hotel

Boards

Devils Elbow

Attractions

Sports

St. Robert

Waynesville

PC Daily

Dixon

Menu Guide

Fun Links

Homework

Crocker

Fort Wood

Swedeborg

Big Piney

Laquey

Classifieds

Restaurants

Richland

Fort  Hotels

The Media Fall for Phony 'Jobs' Claims: The Obama numbers are pure fiction
By WILLIAM MCGURN
    Tony Fratto is envious.         
    Mr. Fratto was a colleague of mine in the Bush administration, and as a senior member of the White House communications shop, he knows just how difficult it can be to deal with a press corps skeptical about presidential economic claims. It now appears, however, that Mr. Fratto's problem was that he simply lacked the magic words -- jobs "saved or created."
 
    "Saved or created" has become the signature phrase for Barack Obama as he describes what his stimulus is doing for American jobs. His latest invocation came yesterday, when the president declared that the stimulus had already saved or created at least 150,000 American jobs -- and announced he was ramping up some of the stimulus spending so he could "save or create" an additional 600,000 jobs this summer. These numbers come in the context of an earlier Obama promise that his recovery plan will "save or create three to four million jobs over the next two years."       
   
    Mr. Fratto sees a double standard at play. "We would never have used a formula like 'save or create,'" he tells me. "To begin with, the number is pure fiction -- the administration has no way to measure how many jobs are actually being 'saved.' And if we had tried to use something this flimsy, the press would never have let us get away with it."
 
      Of course, the inability to measure Mr. Obama's jobs formula is part of its attraction. Never mind that no one -- not the Labor Department, not the Treasury, not the Bureau of Labor Statistics -- actually measures "jobs saved." As the New York Times delicately reports, Mr. Obama's jobs claims are "based on macroeconomic estimates, not an actual counting of jobs." Nice work if you can get away with it.
 
    And get away with it he has. However dubious it may be as an economic measure, as a political formula "save or create" allows the president to invoke numbers that convey an illusion of precision. Harvard economist and former Bush economic adviser Greg Mankiw calls it a "non-measurable metric."
 
    More at http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451592762396883.html
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

Offline oldcowpoke

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 630
  • Karma: +716480/-5633
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2009, 03:54:34 PM »
No offense, ex-ed. But it is a little beyond my reach to take Frattos word for it. Tony Fratto is hardly as pure as the driven snow and he did a few snow jobs of his own.

Not to mention that McGurn was Bushes main speech writer. That is a joke all by itself.



Offline David Day

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 1450
  • Karma: +241468/-53
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2009, 04:17:01 PM »
To my knowledge there is no official way to count jobs "saved" at the federal level and to my knowledge, at any state level either (we have asked for such a system for a few years now and everyone says it does not exist).  I am sure DC, just as we do at the state level, can point to a company and say "if we had not done "x,y, and z", they would have gone out of business", but that can't be done with every business and is not scientific at all.  To do the calculation you would have to know how every business in America reacted to each change in policy and spending, then you would also have to know what would have happened if those changes had not happened...and would other businesses started because of the change or lack of change....impossible to calculate.

Republicans are having fun with this and even some Democrats have admitted that there is no way to count "saved" jobs...but Republicans are forgetting they have used the "saved jobs" numbers also in the past.

Difference, Republicans were beat up with using those numbers by the "mainstream media", today they are more worried about covering the next Date Night than asking questions.  Oh well, it is what it is.

JMO,
Dave
Political Website:  www.StateRepDay.com
Back Roads Recording:  www.backroadsrecording.com
Band Website:  www.MFNband.net
Twitter:  http://twitter.com/RepDay

Offline 48fan

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 976
  • Karma: +2171982/-416
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2009, 04:20:24 PM »
That is exactly why you can't believe anything the government tells you because it is all best guess or swag as we like to say.

100% not based on fact or verifiable information.

Just a bunch of numbers to make someone look good but totally based on thin air.

Offline David Day

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 1450
  • Karma: +241468/-53
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2009, 04:25:37 PM »
I don't know if I agree with that, I just think folks need to ask questions...and have a media that asks questions. 

Right now nobody is doing that, just like almost nobody did about policy issues right after 9-11.  For different reasons, there was/is a honeymoon period.

JMO,
Dave
Political Website:  www.StateRepDay.com
Back Roads Recording:  www.backroadsrecording.com
Band Website:  www.MFNband.net
Twitter:  http://twitter.com/RepDay

Offline cowboy

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 2065
  • Karma: +89530/-9529
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2009, 06:00:13 PM »
The job saved number is like the pharm industry that will save $1 trillion over the next 10 years.   Cost would go up X but we will only charge Y so you save  a bunch of money.  The problem seems that they  know how much cost they will save in the next 10 years but  are unable to forecast the next quarter.   

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2009, 06:17:28 PM »
To me, Obama is pulling these "numbers" out of the bottom of his alimentary canal.  Anything to make HIM look good and stay popular.  The media is still treating him like gold.  He is far from it at this stage and can no longer blame his predecessor.

Offline Vado Del Rio

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 810
  • Karma: +326440/-142
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2009, 06:47:22 PM »
I'm no economist but I think all jobs should be focused towards the private sector, period!  Moreover, their efforts should be focused towards manufacturing and all other services that keeps our country self sufficient.  Our government could easily create incentives this by moving over, cutting the red tape, and lowering corporate and capital gains taxes as they did in the early 80s. 

There's only one problem.  Many politicians have a CONTROL mentality and seem to think they always know what's best for this economy even though most have had little experience in the private sector.  A career politician is normally a "me first" individual that's a human wrecking ball when it comes to financial/monetary policy.

 

Offline darrellmaurina

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 5716
  • Karma: +376322/-7230
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009, 12:56:16 PM »
President Obama seems to be taking a page from FDR's job programs of the 1930s.

He's a student of history. A number of his cabinet choices can only be explained by looking at how Abraham Lincoln structured his cabinet by appointing numerous defeated political enemies to prominent positions; people simply don't do things that way in ordinary political times, and Lincoln's decisions account for much of the chaos his party suffered in the decade after his presidency.

I think if we study the "jobs saved, jobs created" rhetoric of President Obama, we need to look at the WPA and CCC projects of FDR as a model for what he's trying to do and how he's trying to measure progress. The interesting thing is we may find that many of the criticism of President Obama might also apply to FDR; if President Obama is "cooking the books" to claim credit for job creation that isn't there, was FDR doing the same thing?

That's what the "hard right" has been arguing since the late 1940s. Mainstream historians ridicule that argument, and most conservatives -- even Ronald Reagan -- generally avoid the fight. There are two reasons for that: first, because it is extremely difficult if not impossible to prove whether the economic recovery under FDR was due to his economic programs or due to World War II, and second, because in the 1950s and 1960s, literally tens of millions of people had firsthand experience with receiving paychecks from FDR's "put America back to work" programs and absolutely would not listen to arguments attacking a president who they thought put food on their tables with a paycheck.
Darrell Todd Maurina
Check out the Pulaski County Daily News online newspaper at
http://www.pulaskicountyweb.com
Cell: (573) 433.6733 * FAX: (573) 774-2349
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darrellmaurina/
Follow me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/darrellmaurina/

Offline ex-ed

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 1033
  • Karma: +603114/-25836
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 04:12:51 PM »
President Obama seems to be taking a page from FDR's job programs of the 1930s.

He's a student of history. A number of his cabinet choices can only be explained by looking at how Abraham Lincoln structured his cabinet by appointing numerous defeated political enemies to prominent positions; people simply don't do things that way in ordinary political times, and Lincoln's decisions account for much of the chaos his party suffered in the decade after his presidency.

I think if we study the "jobs saved, jobs created" rhetoric of President Obama, we need to look at the WPA and CCC projects of FDR as a model for what he's trying to do and how he's trying to measure progress. The interesting thing is we may find that many of the criticism of President Obama might also apply to FDR; if President Obama is "cooking the books" to claim credit for job creation that isn't there, was FDR doing the same thing?

That's what the "hard right" has been arguing since the late 1940s. Mainstream historians ridicule that argument, and most conservatives -- even Ronald Reagan -- generally avoid the fight. There are two reasons for that: first, because it is extremely difficult if not impossible to prove whether the economic recovery under FDR was due to his economic programs or due to World War II, and second, because in the 1950s and 1960s, literally tens of millions of people had firsthand experience with receiving paychecks from FDR's "put America back to work" programs and absolutely would not listen to arguments attacking a president who they thought put food on their tables with a paycheck.

    The point is that Prez O and his people are spouting numbers and spreading baseless opinions to make the administration look good, and, as the original op-ed piece above concludes: 
   "You would think that any self-respecting White House press corps would show some of the same skepticism toward President Obama's jobs claims that they did toward President Bush's tax cuts," says Mr. Fratto. "But I'm still waiting."
    It's obvious to me that no "self-respecting White House press corps" exists. Neither they nor other MSM even bother to ask the pointed questions, the ones that just might reveal the falsehoods beneath the hype. So much for Journalism 2009.
 
 
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

Offline darrellmaurina

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 5716
  • Karma: +376322/-7230
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2009, 03:17:51 AM »
    It's obvious to me that no "self-respecting White House press corps" exists. Neither they nor other MSM even bother to ask the pointed questions, the ones that just might reveal the falsehoods beneath the hype. So much for Journalism 2009.

On that point, you and I are in full agreement.

There's something seriously wrong when a small-town reporter like me can make lots of government officials wish I weren't at meetings, but the press corps covering the President of the United States of America can't ask hard questions.

I know, I know. People will claim with the massive cutbacks in staff, there's no longer time to do in-depth research on White House-related stories. That's true. But I've been watching the Washington Times with its two to three minute daily video coverage of the White House and Congress (it's on a link on the www.pulaskicountyweb.com right-hand sidebar) and they, with a circulation one-seventh the size of the Washington Post, are digging up all kinds of dirt and asking hard questions about President Obama's policies. If they can do it, there's no reason others can't too. The reason? The Washington Times is a conservative newspaper and is their website is consistently in the top-30 list of national news websites, which gives their paper a national audience far outside the Washington beltway.
Darrell Todd Maurina
Check out the Pulaski County Daily News online newspaper at
http://www.pulaskicountyweb.com
Cell: (573) 433.6733 * FAX: (573) 774-2349
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darrellmaurina/
Follow me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/darrellmaurina/

Offline SilverFox

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 247
  • Karma: +70709/-0
  • Go to your profile and put something here.
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2009, 08:42:38 PM »
As opposed to manufactoring jobs we have become a nation primarily of service type jobs because most US companies have moved overseas due to labor cost. It doesn't take a genius to figure out someone making minimum wage can't afford a car built by someone making thirty or forty dollars an hour. Here is something to ponder, lets say the state of Missouri has money for new road construction which is a good thing. It creates hundred's of jobs, these jobs are temporary, when they are finished the jobs go away. We need jobs that will be here ten, twenty years from now not ten to twenty months. Just a thought.

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Obama administration's imaginary jobs ...
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2009, 11:53:37 PM »
Lincoln's political decisions are still affecting this country.  That is why wew have such a strong federal government and the states are just pawns now.