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Author Topic: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"  (Read 15065 times)

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Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2009, 05:16:31 PM »

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I think we're in agreement.

Darrell,

The use of Ma'am may have some different meaning in various parts of the world or maybe even some in the military, I am not going to argue that one way or another because first I don't know, second it doesn't matter here, we are talking about an elected official in our part of the world.

She is an elected official, using Senator, Lady, Ma'am, The Honorable, Gentlewoman are all acceptable AND as an elected official you become used to a wide variety of titles given to you.  In that setting, as long as he was respectful, who cares which title is used.  She was just reminding the General who was boss and who's turf he was on, nothing more in my opinion.  I have seen this happen before at both state and federal level and it is nothing more than just arrogance.  IF she where truly hung up on proper titles, as I said before, she would use them when addressing military officers, directors of departments, etc...  She does not all of the time, so protocol is not her big issue.

Just my opinion but she is just wanting to remind the General who is in charge in that room.  The General was being respectful and it was not called for. 

Dave
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Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2009, 05:21:10 PM »
I just watched it again to make sure I didn't miss something.  And just as I said before, she wants him to know she has no respect for him.  What happened to the respect for him, she could have at least let him finish his sentence.  She interruped him, how rude is that, just to make clear to him that she is a senator.  I am teaching my daughter to say yes ma'am and sir and...gasp, I'm teaching her to say please and thank you too.  I'm teaching her to respect the men and women in uniform in our community, it is because of them that we can live here.  It is because of this General and others in our military that Barb is able to hold an elected position.  She should be kissing his....feet and thanking him for his service instead of humiliating him.
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Offline What_The?

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2009, 05:29:00 PM »
Anyone know what the General thinks about the subject, or are you guys too busy getting angry for him to bother checking?
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2009, 05:32:58 PM »
Perhaps he should have called her Madam with all the connotations it entails.  After all, she is in a whorehouse called Washington DC.

Offline oldcowpoke

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2009, 05:45:09 PM »
Perhaps he should have called her Madam with all the connotations it entails.  After all, she is in a whorehouse called Washington DC.
((((( Good one matrsnot.  ;D

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2009, 05:53:51 PM »
Anyone know what the General thinks about the subject, or are you guys too busy getting angry for him to bother checking?

I'm the one who started this thread and posted the video, and no, I am not angry.

I've read what the national media have written about the meeting Sen. Boxer and the general had after this incident and it appears it's not a problem for him. But that is not the point -- the general is not allowed to have it be a problem for him. I'm sure you've heard sergeants berating a PFC or Spec-4 and saying some version of "You got a problem with that, private?" Any critical thoughts the general may have on the subject will not be stated in public, out of a proper and correct view of subordination of the military to civilian authority.

I've personally observed the way U.S. Rep. Ike Skelton treats Fort Leonard Wood general officers in front of the media, and neither the generals nor the congressman nor anyone else in the room have the slightest doubt who is in charge. The difference is that any senior leader that Rep. Skelton is likely to deal with knows that Skelton has earned his right to respect. Sen. Boxer is demanding respect to which she is legitimately entitled by her office. There is a difference.

My personal view is that the Senator may need a serious education in military protocol, unless she was trying to be deliberately authoritarian, and if so, she accomplished exactly what she intended. I don't know which. I hope the first is true, but I'm afraid the second may be true.
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Offline What_The?

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2009, 06:03:38 PM »
I'm the one who started this thread and posted the video, and no, I am not angry.

I've read what the national media have written about the meeting Sen. Boxer and the general had after this incident and it appears it's not a problem for him. But that is not the point -- the general is not allowed to have it be a problem for him. I'm sure you've heard sergeants berating a PFC or Spec-4 and saying some version of "You got a problem with that, private?" Any critical thoughts the general may have on the subject will not be stated in public, out of a proper and correct view of subordination of the military to civilian authority.

I've personally observed the way U.S. Rep. Ike Skelton treats Fort Leonard Wood general officers in front of the media, and neither the generals nor the congressman nor anyone else in the room have the slightest doubt who is in charge. The difference is that any senior leader that Rep. Skelton is likely to deal with knows that Skelton has earned his right to respect. Sen. Boxer is demanding respect to which she is legitimately entitled by her office. There is a difference.

My personal view is that the Senator may need a serious education in military protocol, unless she was trying to be deliberately authoritarian, and if so, she accomplished exactly what she intended. I don't know which. I hope the first is true, but I'm afraid the second may be true.

She's got every right to be as Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush and John Ashcroft as she wants to be in her treatment of others.

If you want to legislate how she speaks, how she acts, and point your finger at her and scold her like she's a child, you are welcome to burn the Constitution along the way (and when I say you, its not just you, but the whole of the you's who think that they have the right to make other people be respectful).

She may not be winning any popularity contests, but she did win her seat with the most votes ever (if memory serves) in California history.

The voters of CA will express their feelings about her at the ballot box, but nobody has the moral highground to demand she act in a certain way.

It isn't at all coincidental, either, that she has been one of the few women who raked Bush administration officials over the coals and the reaction by the right wing propaganda machine is not at all surprising.

Demand it of others while never once holding your own party to the same standards.

What, no fake tears for not wearing a coat in the Oval office, a black man taking a picture of Michelle Obama, what shoes she's wearing, or what mustard is being put on Obama's sandwich?

Slow fake tears day?


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Offline What_The?

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2009, 06:08:38 PM »
And let's not lose focus on the fact that the General had no problem with this after it happened, and in spite of DTM's desire to speak for the guy, I'm much more prepared to believe the words coming out of the General's mouth than I am the spin doctor's telepathic readings from a thousand miles away of what the General is "really" feeling.

"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline ex-ed

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2009, 06:13:16 PM »
Much ado about nothing ....
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

Offline ♥♣ ~Maynard~♣♥

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2009, 06:26:50 PM »
:blowup: I bet she was ragging. :safe:
Madam Senators way of saying,
Let me introduce you to my little friend.
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Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2009, 06:28:05 PM »
Well now Dan, most of the things we comment on and throw fits about on this site are "much ado about nothing," but it doesn't stop us from commenting and throwing "hissy" fits.  That's what the board is for, venting.
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Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2009, 06:32:04 PM »
And let's not lose focus on the fact that the General had no problem with this after it happened, and in spite of DTM's desire to speak for the guy, I'm much more prepared to believe the words coming out of the General's mouth than I am the spin doctor's telepathic readings from a thousand miles away of what the General is "really" feeling.

An important caution here ... I am not claiming to know what the general does or does not feel. He cannot and will not speak on that publicly. For all I know, the general could be a liberal Democrat born and raised in San Francisco who joined the Army because he wants to help make the world safe for democracy. There are such people in uniform, and they deserve our respect for their patriotism.

And yes, in America people have the right to elect whoever they want. Sen. Boxer is answerable to her constituents, not to me, and they obviously like her.

So what's the point? The conservative blogosphere has erupted with commentary on this. I'm kind of interested in how people here feel about an issue on which I can legitimately see two sides.

I don't always have an agenda when I ask questions ...  :wink1a:
Darrell Todd Maurina
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Offline Coyote

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2009, 06:33:43 PM »
I'd like to know how many times she's referred to President Obama as "Mr. Obama" or just plain "Obama."  Ms. Boxer has always been a pain in the behind.  She has a problem with men in authority...not just military men.
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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2009, 07:37:44 PM »
I'd like to know how many times she's referred to President Obama as "Mr. Obama" or just plain "Obama."  Ms. Boxer has always been a pain in the behind.  She has a problem with men in authority...not just military men.
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Offline Coyote

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2009, 07:47:38 PM »
Thank you...that's nice.

 :)
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Offline David Day

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Re: Call me "Senator," not "Ma'am"
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2009, 09:39:36 PM »
I don't think anyone was trying to speak for the General, Winston.  And, because he is a General and she is a Senator, you will never know how he felt about her saying that, at least not until he retires and then most likely not.  So for you to say that he had no problem with it is not accurate at all, none of us know what he thought. 

As I am sure you know, the military does not enjoy much in the way of freedom of speech when it comes to elected officials while in the service as we do.

Dave
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