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Author Topic: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals  (Read 6143 times)

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Offline fish

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EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« on: August 19, 2009, 01:13:48 PM »

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Taxpayers foot the bill at University Medical Center   Anyone who thinks illegal immigration is an insignificant wedge issue in this country's already-divisive debate over health care reform need only look at Page 18A of Sunday's Review-Journal. In a picture worth significantly more than a thousand words, three uninsured illegals lie in beds at University Medical Center, receiving emergency dialysis at a cost of between $11,000 and $18,000 apiece.
Eviscerating any claim that illegals impose a miniscule burden on our health care system, the Review-Journal's Paul Harasim reports that 80 illegal immigrants with failing kidneys are receiving about $2 million worth of dialysis treatments each month at UMC. Brian Brannman, UMC's chief financial officer, projects that these 80 people alone will be responsible for about 35 percent of the public hospital's estimated $70 million deficit in the new fiscal year. 
Bills for uncompensated care are forwarded to the recession-ravaged taxpayers of Clark County.
"The federal government kicked the can down the road on the immigration issue and gave the bill to us," Mr. Brannman said. "This is a federal policy failure that is driving huge health care costs to our citizens."
On one hand, the federal government rightly denies illegal immigrants eligibility for Medicare and other public health plans. On the other hand, federal law prevents hospitals from refusing to diagnose or treat anyone who requires emergency medical attention, regardless of their immigration status or ability to pay.
And some in Congress bristle at the idea of cracking down on these serial abusers of our emergency services?
Plenty of politicians and liberal special-interest groups argue that taking steps to deny uncompensated care to illegal immigrants is beyond uncompassionate -- it's inhumane. But what about the humanitarian cost of forcing sick and suffering citizens who pay into the system to wait for hours in emergency rooms because of the manpower required to treat nonpaying noncitizens?
"There's no question that these illegals who come for dialysis treatment at emergency rooms back everything up," said Dr. Dale Carrison, UMC's head of emergency services. "And there's also no question that they need help. But this isn't how emergency rooms were meant to be used."
Moreover, what about the humanitarian cost of reducing and dismantling health care services to meet the demands of illegals? How is it compassionate to give away so much costly health care to illegal immigrants that a hospital finally must close its doors, as has happened in California?
Let this government-sponsored mess finally put to rest the myth that the uninsured and poor are dying in the streets because they lack adequate access to health care. If dozens of illegals can get dialysis treatments for years on end without paying for them, then access to health care isn't the problem with this country's medical services.
The most urgent problems are rising costs and unfair cost-shifting. Illegals are a driving force behind both. Where to start?
First, every hospital in Nevada -- public and private, nonprofit and for-profit -- should be demanding proof of citizenship and immigration status from uninsured patients, then notifying U.S. immigration officials and foreign consulates of every uninsured illegal immigrant who receives care.
Federal, state and local governments track every obscure medical statistic at considerable taxpayer expense. At the very least, citizens should get exact figures on how much uninsured noncitizens are costing them in increased tax subsidies and insurance premiums -- and get some assurance that illegals can't continue to game the system by keeping their mouths and wallets shut.
Second, someone has to pay for the untold millions of dollars worth of hospital care provided to illegal immigrants, and it shouldn't be local taxpayers through their struggling community hospitals. Nor should our federal masters simply put the costs on their 14-figure credit card balance.
The U.S. government has the power and standing to bill the home countries of these noncitizens for their health care. No doubt, most of these illegals have been sending a good portion of their wages to family in their native nations, to the benefit of those economies and governments. These countries certainly can afford to send some of that wealth back.
Finally, Nevada authorities, working with the U.S. government, should put foreign countries on notice that their citizens will face immediate deportation if they accrue medical bills they cannot pay. Our legal immigration process demands that incoming residents prove they are healthy and won't be a burden on taxpayer-funded services. Why on earth would we allow ill illegal immigrants to remain here and drain local government treasuries?
Arizona and Florida hospitals have arranged the deportation of nonpaying illegals, so Nevada hospitals must follow suit. If nothing else, this would provide illegals with a powerful incentive to obtain health insurance or leave the United States.
This is not to say we should put seriously ill illegals on a bus to the border and kick them to the curb. They should be treated and made as well as possible before being sent home, with transitionary care arranged by their consulates, whenever possible. That's compassionate. That's a humanitarian solution.
Allowing 80 illegal immigrants to bankrupt this valley's only public hospital is not.
 
http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/53675107.html

Offline matrsnot

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2009, 01:55:52 PM »
UMC is a step ahead of congress.  Congress is already working on a healthcare plan that will not exclude illegals from treatment.  That way all hospitals in the country can work their way to bankruptcy.

Offline ex-ed

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2009, 02:08:31 PM »
And that's just at one hospital. Multiply the problem by the number of hospitals in the U.S., and you can get a glimpse of the real problem. As the story says, the issue is NOT poor folks and illegal immigrants dying from the lack of access to health care; the real issue is that the rest of us are paying for their health care along with our own.
The unreal cost of liability insurance for doctors is another medical high-cost issue, but Obama and co. have stated that they aren't going to touch that issue. Medical costs could be greatly lowered by simply putting limits on how much people collect in medical malpractice suits. The problem here, of course, is that our federal lawmakers are mostly lawyers and lawyers make lotsa $$ from such suits.
 
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

Offline Coyote

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2009, 07:27:29 PM »
First and foremost, doctor's are sworn to the Hippocratic Oath.  Here is the original Latin version translated into english. 

ď I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement:
To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.

I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.

I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.

In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.

All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.

If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot."
 


....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline fish

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2009, 07:31:43 PM »
that oath doesn't say they work for free or they should help cause  their employer's bankruptcy

Offline What_The?

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2009, 09:14:44 PM »
The sanctity of life:

Only if you are an American citizen and it doesn't cost a lot of money.

Otherwise, the Republicans are all for it.

Money:

It means more than where you are born, how sick you are or if you will die.

I'd rather a thousand poorly run, scandal ridden wasteful hospitals like UMC go bankrupt keeping 80 illegal immigrants alive than watch one slowly die of kidney failure, so Fish and his cronies can decide who lives and dies BY HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE OR WHERE YOU WERE BORN.



"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline matrsnot

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 12:09:37 AM »
My heart bleeds for the criminals here illegally.

Offline fish

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 12:42:09 AM »
then you would have no problem paying for an illegal aliens emergency room visit winston? put your money where your mouth is.

Offline CriTTer

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 01:21:05 AM »
then you would have no problem paying for an illegal aliens emergency room visit winston? put your money where your mouth is.
  what value do you puy on a human beings life  tokyofish ?

Offline fish

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 01:26:14 AM »
same challenge to you critter.
 
 
let their country take care of them.

Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 02:56:26 AM »
If they keep this ILLEGAL alien provision in the bill, I'm convinced it will fail.  Providing health care for those who are CRIMINALLY in this country defies human logic.  For those of you who support these invaders,  turn your own home into a sanctuary for about a dozen and perhaps you'll establish some credibility...........  It's usually, not in my back yard but I support it, right?

It's easy to expect our worthless federal government to foot the bill but the money has to come from somewhere.  This "I'm my brothers keeper" crap with regard to CRIMINAL ALIENS is a joke! 

Offline CriTTer

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2009, 03:27:46 AM »
If they keep this ILLEGAL alien provision in the bill, I'm convinced it will fail.  Providing health care for those who are CRIMINALLY in this country defies human logic.  For those of you who support these invaders,  turn your own home into a sanctuary for about a dozen and perhaps you'll establish some credibility...........  It's usually, not in my back yard but I support it, right?

It's easy to expect our worthless federal government to foot the bill but the money has to come from somewhere.  This "I'm my brothers keeper" crap with regard to CRIMINAL ALIENS is a joke!
  there is no such provisions being worked out in the bill  http://pulaskicountyweb.com/smf/index.php?topic=18507.msg196834;topicseen#new

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 08:27:48 AM »
You first.

What would Jesus do fish?

What the F@%# would Jesus do?  Huh?

You proclaim to be some sort of devout Christian over in the religious section of the site... so what now fish?  Huh?

then you would have no problem paying for an illegal aliens emergency room visit winston? put your money where your mouth is.

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 08:29:28 AM »
Thats what Cain said after he murdered Able.

"Am I my brother's keeper?"

If they keep this ILLEGAL alien provision in the bill, I'm convinced it will fail.  Providing health care for those who are CRIMINALLY in this country defies human logic.  For those of you who support these invaders,  turn your own home into a sanctuary for about a dozen and perhaps you'll establish some credibility...........  It's usually, not in my back yard but I support it, right?

It's easy to expect our worthless federal government to foot the bill but the money has to come from somewhere.  This "I'm my brothers keeper" crap with regard to CRIMINAL ALIENS is a joke! 

Offline Coyote

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 12:32:24 PM »
The world is not as big as it used to be.  If we have a shortage of doctors, make it easier to become one.  Promote nurses, bring in foreign (yes foreign) doctors if necessary.  Make it easier to help us.  All of us.  Stop the billion dollar settlements, lower the cost of medical insurance.  Each human life is as valuable as the next. 

"But what about the humanitarian cost of forcing sick and suffering citizens who pay into the system to wait for hours in emergency rooms because of the manpower required to treat nonpaying noncitizens?" 

Really?  I don't think so.  I've seen people wait for hours at Fort Wood and there were no nonpaying noncitizens in front of them.  Emergency rooms are for emergencies and they are prioritized according to injury/illness.  Triage.  The worse seen first.
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline matrsnot

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2009, 01:24:43 PM »
  there is no such provisions being worked out in the bill  http://pulaskicountyweb.com/smf/index.php?topic=18507.msg196834;topicseen#new
You are correct.  There was a proposed provision to deny them healthcare and the dems refused to place such a provision in.  that means they ARE eligible since they are not prohibited from it. 

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2009, 01:36:37 PM »
Not sure I want a DR. that used the "easy button"

The world is not as big as it used to be.  If we have a shortage of doctors, make it easier to become one.  Promote nurses, bring in foreign (yes foreign) doctors if necessary.  Make it easier to help us.  All of us.  Stop the billion dollar settlements, lower the cost of medical insurance.  Each human life is as valuable as the next. 

"But what about the humanitarian cost of forcing sick and suffering citizens who pay into the system to wait for hours in emergency rooms because of the manpower required to treat nonpaying noncitizens?" 

Really?  I don't think so.  I've seen people wait for hours at Fort Wood and there were no nonpaying noncitizens in front of them.  Emergency rooms are for emergencies and they are prioritized according to injury/illness.  Triage.  The worse seen first.

Offline ex-ed

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2009, 02:20:32 PM »
... I'd rather a thousand poorly run, scandal ridden wasteful hospitals like UMC go bankrupt keeping 80 illegal immigrants alive than watch one slowly die of kidney failure, so Fish and his cronies can decide who lives and dies BY HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE OR WHERE YOU WERE BORN.
Those 80 illegal aliens would certainly suffer when their hospital went broke and closed. And how many more would suffer and possibly die after 90 percent of the hospitals go broke because they are overloaded with nonpaying illegal aliens?
In case you flunked Econ 101, WT, unlike the government, hospitals and other businesses must make a profit to stay in business. No profits equals no employees, no equipment, no meds, no beds, no lights, no water, no heat, no A/C. Even "nonprofit" organizations must be able to pay their expenses to remain in operation.
Go back to school and learn how wealth is created (NOT by government) and how the free enterprise system has made this nation as rich, prosperous, and productive as it has been. Then study the histories of socialist countries whose policies have led to gross inequities in quality and quantity of services and quality of life. All attempts to mandate "equality" of living standards has pulled the average person's lifestyle DOWN rather than lifting that of the "less-fortunates." They have always resulted in overall gross deterioration of living standards rather than eliminating the bottom levels of poverty dwellers.
Yes, money is very important. Try living without it -- anywhere in the world!
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

Offline Chas

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2009, 02:38:04 PM »
While I donít like illegalís. They do serve a purpose.  Letís be honest  we are not going to wash dishes or pick crops for what these people will do it for. What bothers me about the way this post reads, is that if there was a human being dying that some on here would let him/her/ child (whatever) die.

Offline fish

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2009, 03:07:53 PM »
read the posts again dn. I said let their country take care of them. or you could.

Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2009, 05:19:27 PM »
Good grief, I'm not for letting anyone die, nor do I dislike illegals.  The criminal behavior of making entry illegally into our country is what I dislike.  I think we should secure our borders ASAP and systematically begin a removal process.  Americans will do the work if they'd quit extending all these unemployment benefits, etc.
 
Matrsnot is correct:  Unless specific language is in this bill to prohibit illegals from receiving benefits, then they'll automatically be eligible.

Offline What_The?

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2009, 06:01:55 PM »
This is why healthcare should not be a matter of money or where you are from.

Life is too precious to worry about whether the healthcare industry has enough lobbyists, a doctor can make his Porche payment or whether you were born in the right country.

If you are sick, hurt, or dying, it doesn't matter to me what country you are from, how much money you have or whether or not enough profit can be made on your illness.

There is no sanctity of life among Republicans, only the sanctity of making sure massive corporate insurance companies decide who lives and dies, who is sick or healthy.

America needs to wake up:

Not one country whose "evil socialist" healthcare policies has ever gotten rid of their system and changed back to a for profit healthcare system.

Not one.

Every one of them ended for profit healthcare systems.

Only in America can a party so twisted and driven by greed could the offer of healthier Americans, an offer of making sure our babies have a better chance at living than Cuba's babies, is seen as wrong and evil.

Only in America can people who have 100% socialized single payer health care for every citizen over 65 look at expanding the same offer of coverage as somehow being "evil."

America: where stupid people ruined the country for 8 years and now want another chance at making sure they totally ruin it.

"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline ex-ed

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2009, 06:35:30 PM »
Life is too precious to worry about whether the healthcare industry has enough lobbyists, a doctor can make his Porche payment or whether you were born in the right country.
 ...
Not one country whose "evil socialist" healthcare policies has ever gotten rid of their system and changed back to a for profit healthcare system.

Not one.
....

On the first part, I agree. And in the United States, no one who needs it goes without health care, whether they can pay or now. The issue is not access to health care, but who pays for it.
Those who are in this country illegally are parasites, living off the rest of us. They should be deported and sent to their home-country health care systems. Our borders should be sealed and guarded against ingress by more parasitical illegals.
By allowing illegals to stay and receive free health care, the Obama administration is adding an immense burden to the health system instead of alleviating the load.
But the illegal immigrant issue begs the real question: Control. Obama and company don't give a rat's patooty about the people being treated under the current system; they are out to gain total control of the nation's health care system as part of their efforts to gain total control over the American people. That's the real danger of his proposals, and I will fight him/them until my dying day!
On your second point, above, Brits and Canadians involved in both of their healthcare systems have stated recently that both systems dearly need competition, in the form of private companies, to spur real improvements in their systems.
And, relating to the last point I made about your previous point, no one who gains control of a population with an entrenched bureaucracy will willingly give up that control without a fight. The issue, for those in that bureaucracy, is no longer taking care of people, but simply sustaining the bureaucracy that pays them fat salaries while they ration out the ever-decreasing available health care.
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

Offline fish

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2009, 08:10:27 PM »
it is obvious haven't read the bill winston

Offline What_The?

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2009, 09:05:05 PM »
it is obvious haven't read the bill winston

Which bill?

Seriously, which one did YOU read?

"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline Racer

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2009, 09:17:09 PM »
This is why healthcare should not be a matter of money or where you are from.

Life is too precious to worry about whether the healthcare industry has enough lobbyists, a doctor can make his Porche payment or whether you were born in the right country.

If you are sick, hurt, or dying, it doesn't matter to me what country you are from, how much money you have or whether or not enough profit can be made on your illness.

There is no sanctity of life among Republicans, only the sanctity of making sure massive corporate insurance companies decide who lives and dies, who is sick or healthy.

America needs to wake up:

Not one country whose "evil socialist" healthcare policies has ever gotten rid of their system and changed back to a for profit healthcare system.

Not one.

Every one of them ended for profit healthcare systems.

Only in America can a party so twisted and driven by greed could the offer of healthier Americans, an offer of making sure our babies have a better chance at living than Cuba's babies, is seen as wrong and evil.

Only in America can people who have 100% socialized single payer health care for every citizen over 65 look at expanding the same offer of coverage as somehow being "evil."

America: where stupid people ruined the country for 8 years and now want another chance at making sure they totally ruin it.

This is so great, wow... :th_thicon_super:

Offline Chas

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2009, 10:20:37 PM »
There is no sanctity of life among Republicans. Sure there is as long as they get to say who. Remember Terri Schiavo.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2009, 11:42:17 PM »
Remember Winston and Racer.  TWO of those years were with a democrat congress who led us into the economic debacle we now face.  don't blame it all on republicans or Bush.  Your precious liberals were heavily involved.  As far as the war...well remember that most of the dems voted FOR going to war in Iraq.  Ooooops.

Offline CriTTer

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2009, 01:23:48 AM »
what difference is a illegal showing up at a ER or a citizen with no insurance showing up at a ER ?   the law as it reads now says no one is to be refused service .  it is this way now is it not?   

Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: EDITORIAL: Free health care for illegals
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2009, 01:37:52 AM »
what difference is a illegal showing up at a ER or a citizen with no insurance showing up at a ER ?   the law as it reads now says no one is to be refused service .  it is this way now is it not?   

You're absolutely correct.  This was a supreme court decision, but it doesn't make it right.  Try showing up in Mexico for care without insurance or cash.  Illegals "criminals" showing up for care should be treated and stabilized for any life threatening conditions, then immediately air-evaced to their country of origin.  I don't care if it's New Zealand.  It makes me sick to see those in "congress" who are sworn to uphold and defend our borders, yet compromise their principles with regard to this invader issue.  Congress is our representative federal government and that's why I say they are completely and totally worthless!  Just looking and listening to these arrogant phonies either makes me want to cry or bust out in laughter........
 
Now here's a logical approach:
 
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/12/grassley-health-care-should-be-legals/