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Author Topic: Global warming  (Read 7238 times)

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Offline fish

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Global warming
« on: December 18, 2009, 02:13:59 AM »

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ever notice when algore is making a speech on global warming the tempurature drops?  And then theres the conference in copenhagen;
Blizzard Dumps Snow on Copenhagen as Leaders Battle Warming   By Christian Wienberg Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- World leaders flying into Copenhagen today to discuss a solution to global warming will first face freezing weather as a blizzard dumped 10 centimeters (4 inches) of snow on the Danish capital overnight.
“Temperatures will stay low at least the next three days,” Henning Gisseloe, an official at Denmark’s Meteorological Institute, said today by telephone, forecasting more snow in coming days. “There’s a good chance of a white Christmas.”
Delegates from 193 countries have been in Copenhagen since Dec. 7 to discuss how to fund global greenhouse gas emission cuts. U.S. President Barack Obama will arrive before the summit is scheduled to end tomorrow.
Denmark has a maritime climate and milder winters than its Scandinavian neighbors. It hasn’t had a white Christmas for 14 years, under the DMI’s definition, and only had seven last century. Temperatures today fell as low as minus 4 Celsius (25 Fahrenheit).
DMI defines a white Christmas as 90 percent of the country being covered by at least 2 centimeters of snow on the afternoon of Dec. 24
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601130&sid=a5wStc0K6jhY
 

Offline shadylane

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2009, 03:05:40 AM »
Being cold in Copenhagen during December, proves there is no global warming.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2009, 01:48:06 AM »
LOL.

Offline fish

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2009, 02:36:14 AM »
50 days to save the world? I might listen to the doomsayers if they weren't such ludicrous hypocrites
    By Stephen Glover
Last updated at 11:40 PM on 16th December 2009

 
  Not many people understand climate change. But they can recognise hypocrisy when they see it, and are also likely to count their spoons whenever wild-eyed politicians invoke the impending end of the world.
On Tuesday, Prince Charles flew to Copenhagen to attend the climate change summit, where he delivered a keynote speech.

He informed his audience that 'the world has only seven years before we lose the levers of control'. Not at all long, then.
For the Prince this was an important speech with an important message.

If we have so little time, and man-made climate change is such a terrifyingly imminent threat, he might have taken a boat or train to Copenhagen, or even, as a symbolic gesture, decided to walk.

But he commandeered a jet belonging to the Queen's Flight, generating an estimated 6.4tons of carbon dioxide, 5.2tons more than if he had used a commercial flight.
Meanwhile his fellow prophet of doom, Gordon Brown, was making his own way to Copenhagen the same day.

This is the man who proclaimed in October that we had '50 days to save the world'. Before leaving he conjured up on a television programme the certainty of 'floods and droughts' with 'climate change evacuees and refugees' if agreement is not reached in Copenhagen.
Mr Brown chartered a 185-seat Airbus to take him and 20 aides to Denmark. Was a smaller plane producing less carbon dioxide not available?

Could he perhaps have shared an aircraft with Prince Charles? Might he have considered taking a scheduled flight to the Danish capital, of which there were 16 on Tuesday?
 
Evidently not. It is odd, isn't it, how climate change doomsayers such as Prince Charles and Mr Brown are so often unprepared to make the smallest sacrifice in their own daily lives to address a threat which they assert is literally deadly.
Presumably any contribution would be helpful. And it is not easy in life to persuade people to give up things if you are almost ostentatiously unwilling to do so yourself.
The Copenhagen summit, supposed to produce an agreement limiting greenhouse gases, has, according to experts, the same carbon footprint as a medium-sized African country such as Malawi.

There are an amazing 34,000 delegates attending the event, and the grander among them are forced, says my colleague Robert Hardman in Copenhagen, to park their private jets in Norway because Denmark has run out of Tarmac, and to procure their gas-guzzling limousines from Germany.

Show me a climate control zealot and I can often show you a hypocrite, and a hypocrite, moreover, who speaks in apocalyptic terms about the world coming to an end - at a time not long hence and usually implausibly specific - if the rest of us do not immediately curb our lifestyles so as to produce fewer greenhouse gases.
The double standards and the grotesque exaggeration go hand in hand.

Some, at least, of the zealots do not really, honestly believe that things are as bad as they say. If they did, they might not go on serenely generating carbon emissions on such a scale.

They are trying to shock us into action by employing emotive language and invoking terrible dangers. In other words, they are treating us as fools.
Politicians shamelessly twist the facts to scare us witless. There has been an appalling case in Copenhagen this week.

Former U.S. Vice-President and climate change zealot Al Gore attributed to Dr Wieslaw Maslowski, an eminent climate change scientist, the belief 'that there is a 75 per cent chance that the entire north polar ice cap, during the summer months, could be completely ice-free within five to seven years'.

Dr Maslowski promptly denied that he would ever 'try to estimate likelihood at anything as exact as that'.
Seven years left in which we can tackle the problem. Fifty days to save the world. The North Pole melted within a few years.

Such outrageous claims, repeated by hundreds of politicians, and amplified by uncritical journalists whose brains have been captured by the climate change lobby, not a few of whom are to be found at the BBC, are bound to foster growing doubts in the public mind.
When he stated there were '50 days to save the world', Mr Brown spoke of a looming 'catastrophe' which, if not dealt with, 'would be greater than the impact of both World Wars and the Great Depression combined'.
Such talk is a debasement of language. The world does not stand, as it did in 1940, at the very edge of an abyss, and to suggest that it does (as has the prominent scientist James Lovelock) would be an offence against history if it were not so ludicrously overblown.
Mr Brown embraces the extremism of climate change zealots partly by way of displacement.

There are the pressing political problems such as the state of the public finances that are extremely difficult to solve, and there is climate change, where the most hair-raising predictions are eagerly endorsed by most in the media and political class, and can scarcely be countered now.

What will the public think of politicians and climate scientists if in ten or 20 years' time their wildest forecasts should prove unfounded?
We should listen to more measured voices - not those who rule out the possibility of man having any role in climate change, or pretend that global warming is not happening, but those who think the hysterical political response is disproportionate to the severity of the threat.
One such voice is the world-renowned British-born physicist Freeman Dyson, who has written that 'the fuss about global warming is grossly exaggerated' and decried 'the holy brotherhood of climate model experts and the crowd of deluded citizens who believe the numbers predicted by the computer models'.     Nor should we forget that little more than 30 years ago the scientific and political consensus was exactly the opposite of what it is today, as the BBC2 programme Earth: The Climate Wars reminded us on Tuesday in what was an unusual spasm of climate change objectivity on the part of the Corporation.  In 1972 a group of distinguished scientists wrote a letter to the U.S. President, Richard Nixon, expressing their fear that the world was entering a new Ice Age.

If those scientists were so completely wrong then, it is not an affront to reason to question whether the more outlandish climate scientists and their supporters might not be overstating their case now.
Does this make me a 'flat earther' - a term of abuse recently employed by Gordon Brown to describe those who, unlike him, do not claim that Armageddon is around the corner?

If the avoidance of lunatic historical parallels or apocalyptic forecasts makes one a flat earther, I accept the charge gladly.

But I can't help wondering whether the real flat earthers may not turn out to be those like Prince Charles and Gordon Brown who count the months to disaster while merrily generating more carbon dioxide than a small African town does in a year.
Should we be surprised that the British public, confronted by this ugly combination of myopic hypocrisy and doommongering, is becoming increasingly sceptical?

As I say, we may not understand climate change, but we do know when we are victims of a fraud.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1236497/STEPHEN-GLOVER-50-days-save-world-I-listen-doomsayers-werent-ludicrous-hypocrites.html#ixzz0a68YchTc

Offline shadylane

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2009, 02:40:36 AM »
Can you us your own words to prove a point or are you like Mark and use copy@paist ?
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline fish

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2009, 02:49:16 AM »
I'll us(use)my own words instead of a copy(@) and paist(paste)that is clear enough for most to understand.

man cannot control the weather. If we could we would not have hurricanes,tornados,floods,droughts,blizzards or heatwaves. when did global warming start? the instant the ice age stopped. When did the ice age stop and what caused it to stop? cave man cars?

Offline shadylane

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2009, 03:38:31 PM »
So you now admit there is global warming. But its a natural occurrence.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2009, 06:00:43 PM »
No admission from me for what the science fiction fanatics call global warming.  The earth goes through cycles over millions of years.  Look at desert areas full of sea shells.  There was an arctic ice age.  What makes you think humans did that?  This is about money pure and simple and the greed of the democrats such as Al Gore and the contempt held for this country by such personages as Obama and his ilk.  Follow the money and you will find the excuse used for the science fiction being perpetrated on us.

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2009, 09:09:17 PM »
if i remember correctly... you guys are chrisrians... right? i didn't think, according to you guys that the earth was old enough for stuff like ice ages... or cave men...

seriously though... its common sense that if you pump an atmosphere full of poisons... that SOMWTHING is gonna happen...

the only real reason its argued is because a bunch of old rich assholes don't want to loose money by being told they cannot run dirty factories.

its so simple to see that the whole discussion becomes ridiculous.

besides... wwjd? lol. i think his daddy would be pretty pissed off if he started drawing on thw walls with crayons. that shit is pretty hard to get out.

Offline David Day

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2009, 09:24:28 PM »
Actually, you can still run those dirty old factories all you want.  You just have to buy carbon credits/pollution credits.  Who gets the money for those credits...yea, the federal government.

Now if folks want to feel that somehow cleans the environment, that's good....but for the most part what it will do is be a tax on businesses to keep doing what they are doing now.  There will also be a ton of money to be made by buying/selling/trading carbon credits.  I have a friend who has a business model set up if this stuff happens nationwide.  He is a smart guy, will probably make another fortune on this venture.

It will also likely push a number of jobs to other countries where this tax won't be an issue for them.  Want to see where a lot of the environmental laws are in place and how they are impacting an area, just go to CA, a lot of this stuff is in place there already.

Should be interesting.

Dave


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Offline fish

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2009, 09:54:59 PM »
the sun warms the earth everyday. what is the definition of global warming according to those saying man is causing it? whether the earth is growing warmer or not, man does not cause it or can prevent it. how do we cool the sun?

Offline shadylane

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2009, 01:46:07 PM »
the sun warms the earth everyday. what is the definition of global warming according to those saying man is causing it? whether the earth is growing warmer or not, man does not cause it or can prevent it. how do we cool the sun?

The percentage of the sun's heat captured by earth depends upon our atmosphere, distance from sun and possibly a variable, solar output.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline cowboy

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2009, 03:57:47 PM »
And therefore?

Offline shadylane

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2009, 07:47:52 PM »
And therefore?

Man probably can cause global warming by increasing the green house gasses in the atmosphere.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline fish

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2009, 11:06:39 PM »
nope. man cannot warm the earth. the sun is closest to the surface of the earth in North America this time of year because of the earth's axis. why isn't it warmer?
 Now cities can hold the heat from the sun longer after the sun sets. the heat is absorbed into all the concrete structures, but it does dissapate. the rural areas cool faster in the evening compared to cities.
Man cannot control the weather, greenhouse gases? nope. where is all the hype of acid rain from years ago?
Now I do believe we should be good stewards of the earth(within reason),but as far as controlling the weather,man can't do it.

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2009, 06:35:38 PM »
"we should be good stewards of the earth(within reason)"

Within reason?  LOL.  Define those parameters for me please... what are we allowed to get away with?

An oil spill here and there?  Maybe another Chernobyl or three?

Did your parents allow YOU to draw on the walls of their home with crayons?  Or in this centuries case... it might be better to say that some are drawing on the walls with magic markers.


nope. man cannot warm the earth. the sun is closest to the surface of the earth in North America this time of year because of the earth's axis. why isn't it warmer?
 Now cities can hold the heat from the sun longer after the sun sets. the heat is absorbed into all the concrete structures, but it does dissapate. the rural areas cool faster in the evening compared to cities.
Man cannot control the weather, greenhouse gases? nope. where is all the hype of acid rain from years ago?
Now I do believe we should be good stewards of the earth(within reason),but as far as controlling the weather,man can't do it.

Offline Chas

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2009, 09:11:10 PM »
Man speeds ups Global warming. Pollution, hole in the ozone, the ice caps melting at excessive rates these are problems. Acid rain has cause damage it has cause damage to buildings, rivers, lakes, drinking water look it up. Global warming policies are not about controlling the weather it about controlling what man puts in the atmosphere that affects the weather. Even the Pentagon is coming up war strategy for global warming.
When the ice coverage melts that causes some problems. Ice actually reflects heat back into space. When is warm enough to melt the ice such as the polar regions, or areas where there is a lot of ice coverage such as Greenland  what happens then is the heat is not reflected back into space and the earth absorbs this addition heat which in turn cause the ice to melt that much faster. There is a lot that man can do to slow or as some studies show reverse global warming. Or maybe we could some how trigger a couple really large volcanoes to erupt at the same time which could cause a cooling effect. Fish: The earth is closest to the sun sometime in January and the distance really never varies that much anyway. What you are referring to is tilt and the angle which is what causes it to be colder. I hope you actually knew that.   Carbon credits that concept was thought up by some rich think tank. And as Rep. Day pointed out doesn’t fix anything but to make rich people richer.

Offline cowboy

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2009, 01:23:05 AM »
I thought the credits were purchased from the government not rich people?

Offline fish

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2009, 02:29:04 AM »
we got coal,oil. it is designed to be used. we also have nuclear. wind isn't too efficient in many areas. I burn wood to heat the house. I just love seeing that 6 cord pile stacked and burned every year. thins out the woods so other trees get more sunlight.
we don't need to save spotted owls or mice at the expense of jobs. Pollute the water ways? pull on your ears dn. until recycling is convenient and cost efficient it won't be fully utilized.
We have a used tire problem. some are used in the production of asphalt. It reduces noise from traffic. more tires should be used in coal powered power plants also. asphalt shingles are being used in asphalt mixes,keeps them out of the landfills. Glass is recycled in asphalt, called glassphalt. these are just 3 items that would slow the filling of landfills and can be used effectively. but until it is convenient or cost free to the ones with the materials, it won't happen. a lot of lip sevice an pc gets this "green talk" nowhere.

Offline David Day

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2009, 02:55:24 AM »
I thought the credits were purchased from the government not rich people?

Businesses will buy the credits from government, then they are allowed to trade/sell them to businesses that exceed their limits.  If a business is entitled to buy 100 credits for example, and only need 25 of them, they can sell the other 75.  There are already people waiting to start businesses which will basically be a "eBay" for credits.  They will buy up all of the extras they can and then find buyers needing them and sell at a profit.

It is a money maker for the government and any folks that end up with some to sell...be it a business that doesn't need them or someone that sets up a business just for that.

Dave
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Offline shadylane

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2009, 03:10:09 AM »
we got coal,oil. it is designed to be used. we also have nuclear. wind isn't too efficient in many areas. I burn wood to heat the house. I just love seeing that 6 cord pile stacked and burned every year. thins out the woods so other trees get more sunlight.
we don't need to save spotted owls or mice at the expense of jobs. Pollute the water ways? pull on your ears dn. until recycling is convenient and cost efficient it won't be fully utilized.
We have a used tire problem. some are used in the production of asphalt. It reduces noise from traffic. more tires should be used in coal powered power plants also. asphalt shingles are being used in asphalt mixes,keeps them out of the landfills. Glass is recycled in asphalt, called glassphalt. these are just 3 items that would slow the filling of landfills and can be used effectively. but until it is convenient or cost free to the ones with the materials, it won't happen. a lot of lip sevice an pc gets this "green talk" nowhere.

Your wood burning, recycling tires and other conservation Ideas are good. Its called neutral carbon.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline cowboy

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2009, 11:23:31 AM »
Businesses will buy the credits from government, then they are allowed to trade/sell them to businesses that exceed their limits.  If a business is entitled to buy 100 credits for example, and only need 25 of them, they can sell the other 75.  There are already people waiting to start businesses which will basically be a "eBay" for credits.  They will buy up all of the extras they can and then find buyers needing them and sell at a profit.

It is a money maker for the government and any folks that end up with some to sell...be it a business that doesn't need them or someone that sets up a business just for that.

Dave

But  why would the government pass up this reverue opportunity, like money, won't they just print more credits and therefore drive down the value.?

Offline prE4chEr

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2009, 12:07:27 PM »
Who gets the money for those credits...yea, the federal government.

 
Actually, you are wrong. The federal government won't be getting the money from carbon credits. The government gets money from carbon taxes. Carbon credits are different than carbon taxes.
 
Carbon taxes are penalties for exceeding a predetermined allotment of acceptable greenhouse gas emissions for a given company. Think of it as the socialist version of carbon credits.
 
Carbon credits, on the other hand, is the capitalist answer to global warming. It is a way for "green" industries to start up, and profit from their venture. Some companies will get carbon credits planting trees, others will get it for changing their own habits. Companies can invest in new ways to make their existing company more environmentally friendly, and then turn around and sell the carbon credits they accumulate for doing so. It is a big incentive for some of our worst polluters to change their ways, and it is a good oppurtunity for environmentally friendly upstart companies.
 
Even if you don't believe in global warming, you still must admit the air is much better out away from all the cities. You have to believe in smog, and you must acknowledge the probability it has a negative effect on the environment. Stopping pollution is a good thing. Earth is your home. It has been entrusted to you. Take care of it as best you can.
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Offline cowboy

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2009, 12:10:34 PM »
So who issues the credits?

Offline David Day

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2009, 12:44:06 PM »
Pre4cher may have info I don't, but every understanding I have had, to include a congressional briefing says the government would be in charge of carbon credits.  Maybe that plan has changed, this has been about 1 1/2 years ago.

The carbon credit is what allowes you to keep polluting without paying the carbon taxes (or fines...whichever you want to call them) or as much of the taxes as you normally would.  You would have to assume that the credit would be less costly long-term than the tax and I believe once you buy that credit it is good for the life of the company that owns it.  If you buy the additional credits, you can pollute all you want up to the credit limit that you have.  There is a formula that takes into consideration what type of company it is, number of people they employee, etc... that will decide how many credits a company can buy initially from the government (we were told to think of that as a buy-in into the environment).  What they do with them from there is up to them (use/buy/sell/trade).

As far as the government passing up the revenue, they will get the initial revenue for them being issued, and of course any tax revenue from the selling/trading of them in the future, along with fines for factories that pollute past their allowed amount.

It is a strange concept to me and one that I personally feel won't have much of an impact other than raising a lot of money for the government and then some smart investors.  JMO.

I don't know that I believe in man-made global warming and I think that the discovered e-mails from the very scientists we were asked to believe talking about needing to hide information is good reason for people to, at the very least, question much of what we have been told over the years.  That said, as Pre4cher said...no doubt cleaner air is better.  I was in Houston a few years ago...huge difference in air quality there and in Dixon...I will take Dixon air....but Maui air is the best I have found :)

Dave

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Offline Chas

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2009, 03:55:20 PM »
The AP went over those e-mails and found that they didn’t really amount to much. When they were all taking in context. When the media first jump on this story it was lot worst then it turned out to be. In the face of the evidence of Global warming a university in Britain and a few scientists that succumb to the egoist need to be right does not negate all the other research.

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2009, 08:10:07 PM »
Your point about recycling be more convenient is on the mark.

When I lived in WA state you recieved a 15 -20 dollar a month discount on trash service if you used recycling bins.

Here in MO Its hard to even find a place to take recyclable stuff except metal.

I would gladly sort the stuff if I had  place to get rid of it.

we got coal,oil. it is designed to be used. we also have nuclear. wind isn't too efficient in many areas. I burn wood to heat the house. I just love seeing that 6 cord pile stacked and burned every year. thins out the woods so other trees get more sunlight.
we don't need to save spotted owls or mice at the expense of jobs. Pollute the water ways? pull on your ears dn. until recycling is convenient and cost efficient it won't be fully utilized.
We have a used tire problem. some are used in the production of asphalt. It reduces noise from traffic. more tires should be used in coal powered power plants also. asphalt shingles are being used in asphalt mixes,keeps them out of the landfills. Glass is recycled in asphalt, called glassphalt. these are just 3 items that would slow the filling of landfills and can be used effectively. but until it is convenient or cost free to the ones with the materials, it won't happen. a lot of lip sevice an pc gets this "green talk" nowhere.

Offline Coyote

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2009, 08:24:19 PM »
There is a recycle center on post where we take our recyclable waste.  Of course you aren't going to get paid for it, but the money is spent wisely.  That's what paid for the new mini-golf on Post.
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2009, 08:33:25 PM »
Where is that at?

There is a recycle center on post where we take our recyclable waste.  Of course you aren't going to get paid for it, but the money is spent wisely.  That's what paid for the new mini-golf on Post.

Offline Coyote

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Re: Global warming
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2009, 09:04:35 PM »
It's back toward the Central Receiving buildings.  You can turn on either side of the PWC building...the old Rust Contractor building.
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...