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Author Topic: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!  (Read 40110 times)

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Offline blissfullybusy

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #150 on: June 14, 2010, 09:09:57 PM »

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Women are Angels

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We simply continue to fly.........on a broomstick...

Because we are flexible like that

Offline Coyote

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #151 on: June 14, 2010, 09:12:57 PM »
It will paint our community as caring, decent people with a bad police department. 

Great, this will paint our community in such a wonderful light. *shaking head*
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline Chas

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #152 on: June 14, 2010, 09:49:13 PM »
I agree with Eden that has been my experience with LED as well,better training would be my guess. They have a bigger budget. I’m glad the KY3 is coming about this. This is about more than a fawn being killed. There are other issues, such as why it was handled the way it was, safety, and why the police chief won’t talk about it.  These people need to be taken to task about this I hope the mayor gets interviewed as well. WPD could have done something about this publicly they chose not to. I hope this goes national and they get raked over the coals.  Am I piling it on you bet and they deserve it. I’m almost as mad about the no comment thing as I am about the way this was handled. I don’t care if you’re a cop that doesn’t mean you should get special treatment if anything LED should be held to higher standards. If you are going to enforce the law then you better make damn sure you’re not breaking any laws.  Speeding, drinking and driving etc..

Offline Eden

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #153 on: June 15, 2010, 03:57:49 PM »
Cop who saved fawn faces jail, fines

Wow....what a backwards world we live in.
"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned"

Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #154 on: June 15, 2010, 04:25:37 PM »
June, the FIRST thing I would do if I would ever get a windfall of money is to provide Pulaski County with a no kill shelter.  Unfortunately, I'm not in a positin to do that now but if I ever am, they got it, big one like the one at the lake.  Of course, then they would have to get people to donate to keep it open, my 30 million would only last so long.  :)
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #155 on: June 15, 2010, 04:35:28 PM »
Waynesville city administrator explains officer's actions in shooting fawn
WAYNESVILLE, Mo. (June 15, 2010) — City Administrator Bruce Harrill issued a statement Tuesday morning explaining the decision by a Waynesville police officer to shoot a baby deer last week outside Mid-Missouri Credit Union. The decision to shoot the fawn sparked significant anger in some parts of the Pulaski County community, along with a statement of regret by Missouri Department of Conversation agents that neither of the two local agents were available to respond. Harrill’s statement called the incident “unfortunate” and noted that the city officer involved in the shooting doesn’t like to shoot adult deer, let alone fawns. “I talked with this officer and this incident was personally upsetting to her as she will not hunt because she does not like to shoot animals, but she had to destroy this deer in the course of her duties,” Harrill said. Click here to read more on Pulaski County Daily News ...

By Darrell Todd Maurina
Darrell Todd Maurina
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Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #156 on: June 15, 2010, 04:36:53 PM »
Fawn wasn't shot in face, Waynesville Police Chief emphasizes

Police Chief Bob Carter
Fawn wasn't shot in face last week, Waynesville police chief emphasizes
WAYNESVILLE, Mo. (June 15, 2010) — Waynesville Police Chief Bob Carter is well-known for publicly defending his officers and doesn’t like criticisms that he believes to be unjustified. “My officers do not like shooting animals, period. I want the point made that officers do not like having to do this, but it has to be done, sometimes,” Carter said. Carter said the Waynesville officer who shot the fawn didn’t shoot it in the face or the head, as has been reported. “The deer was not shot in the head,” Carter said. “It was shot twice because the first one to the neck didn’t sever the artery so the second one was to the heart … those are the areas where if you are a hunter, you drop the deer. Her not being a hunter, she had to take a second shot.” That’s important, Carter said, because the purpose behind shooting the deer was to end suffering, not cause pain. Aiming at vital organs is key to quickly dispatching an animal, Carter said. Click here to read more on Pulaski County Daily News ...

By Darrell Todd Maurina
Darrell Todd Maurina
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http://www.pulaskicountyweb.com
Cell: (573) 433.6733 * FAX: (573) 774-2349
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Offline matrsnot

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #157 on: June 15, 2010, 05:11:02 PM »
WHY was it shot at all?

Offline ~kathy~

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #158 on: June 15, 2010, 05:30:03 PM »
I have to ask, did he see to make sure she did not shoot it in the face and has he got proof that the baby deer was sick? really doesn't matter she should have just left it alone and he shouldn't be making statements unless he has the proof to back it up.
Go ahead and blame me....Everyone else does

Offline kari

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #159 on: June 15, 2010, 05:48:53 PM »
As put forth on one of the other threads.... if the fawn was "sick", or appeared to be sick, it would have been prudent to have had the animal sent for post mortem examination. 
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Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #160 on: June 15, 2010, 06:50:07 PM »
Again, BS trying to cover their a....!

Since the fawn was not a danger to anyone, why was there a rush to destroy it.  It was so small it would have fit in the dog catchers cage.  Put it in there, take it to the conservation people if they can't come to you.  And........if the way she killed that baby was supposed to be "humane" then I would hate to see how you she would kill a deer inhumanely.  It should never have been killed in the CU parking lot in front of people.  Maybe, they should have at least called someone who knows how to hit a target.  TAke her gun away now, if she can't hit a target that is sitting still.  Witnesses say she shot it in the face, I believe the witnesses. 
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!

Offline ~kathy~

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #161 on: June 15, 2010, 06:55:37 PM »
Again, BS trying to cover their a....!

Since the fawn was not a danger to anyone, why was there a rush to destroy it.  It was so small it would have fit in the dog catchers cage.  Put it in there, take it to the conservation people if they can't come to you.  And........if the way she killed that baby was supposed to be "humane" then I would hate to see how you she would kill a deer inhumanely.  It should never have been killed in the CU parking lot in front of people.  Maybe, they should have at least called someone who knows how to hit a target.  TAke her gun away now, if she can't hit a target that is sitting still.  Witnesses say she shot it in the face, I believe the witnesses. 

you are so right and I believe the witness to.
Go ahead and blame me....Everyone else does

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #162 on: June 15, 2010, 07:01:18 PM »
Firing a gun into the ground at close range is extremely unsafe and lives were endangered by her discharge of the firearm.  As I indicated, it doesn't matter.  She is held to a different standard than the average citizen.  Oh and yes I would say that to her face or to any other officer when they act as irresponsibly and this one did.

Offline Chas

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #163 on: June 15, 2010, 07:19:58 PM »
I hope in the future that WPD will handle things different.  I still don’t buy the story but nothing will be done.  I also think it is funny how when something like this happens anywhere not just our area they always seems to be a step ahead (we were review that policy before this even happened.) I believe the witness as well. WPD and the city Administrator has had enough time to come up with they think is a good story.  For the record I don’t care if the Police Chief doesn’t like criticism that he believes to be unjustified.  I believe it is justified and his opinion is no better then mine.

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #164 on: June 15, 2010, 07:36:29 PM »
Wow I was just looking at Chief Carters photo and he doesn't look well to me  ::)
Do you think it's from all the smoke he has been blowing up the peoples butts  %%$%$$# ^^^%%%
Remember I'm a nudist so when you respond to one of my post yor talking to a naked man  :)


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Offline kari

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #165 on: June 15, 2010, 07:48:28 PM »
Wow I was just looking at Chief Carters photo and he doesn't look well to me  ::)
Do you think it's from all the smoke he has been blowing up the peoples butts  %%$%$$# ^^^%%%
I sincerely hope the Officer involved with the death of the fawn wouldn't be the one taking care of him!  OMG! :wink1a:
Proud to have served, US Army, WAC

Offline Chas

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #166 on: June 15, 2010, 08:47:05 PM »
Kari you are to funny. that was a good one

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #167 on: June 15, 2010, 08:58:17 PM »
I also think it is funny how when something like this happens anywhere not just our area they always seems to be a step ahead (we were review that policy before this even happened.) I believe the witness as well. WPD and the city Administrator has had enough time to come up with they think is a good story.

I attend the committee meetings. I know the animal control policies have been under review and discussion for quite some time ... long before this incident.
 
The planned merger of the Waynesville and St. Robert animal shelters is one example of that review.
Darrell Todd Maurina
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Offline Chas

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #168 on: June 15, 2010, 09:49:07 PM »
Darrell if you say you were there and the policies have been under review, I believe you. 

Offline Fafrd

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #169 on: June 15, 2010, 10:10:16 PM »
Hell, the way you ppl are out to lynch this officer and the WPD, you could have it on video backing the statement of the officer, and you wouldnt believe it. 

Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #170 on: June 15, 2010, 10:29:21 PM »
There is no good excuse for what she did, video or not.  If the fawn was sick, take it away and let a vet put it down or at least take it away from the onlookers before you shoot it.  I don't believe it was sick.  She shot it for no reason.  No worry about her being "kynched" she won't even get a Letter of Reprimand.  Waynesville's finest!!!!!   Can't hit a target sitting still, I hope she is never in pursuit of a criminal and fires her gun, everybody duck!!!!!!
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!

Offline strangeduck

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #171 on: June 16, 2010, 02:33:25 PM »
ok i've had enough. to say that the officer acted outside of policies is one thing. whether you be wrong or right you are entitled to your opinion. no matter how educated or uneducated you are on how someone else should do their job you have a right to your opinion. but to go so far as to say that this officer is incapable of protecting the public if she needed to fire at a criminal is just wrong! all police departments including waynesville pd have extensive fire arms training and are required to meet standards with their weapon on a regular basis. if you think you are being funny, slander is not a joke. You all are so quick to criticize what the officer did and jump to conclusions regarding her training and abilities but, i'll bet this incident is the farthest thing from your minds if you ever really need a police officer. It's a deer, not an endangered polar bear killed for it's fur. find a real issue, this has gotten out of hand.

Offline Eden

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #172 on: June 16, 2010, 02:49:39 PM »
love the first time posters who register just to get on and mouth. If she can't make a kill shot with the gun on the target, then I sure as hell don't want her protecting me, I assure you I am a better shot and have never had a days worth of formal trining. As far as protecting the public...was this deer endangering the public....she was by firing her weapon the way she did. We do have a right to our opnion and we will voice it just as you can. There is a lot more being said here then just the fact that she shot a helpless fawn. Strangeduck, if you don't like it, don't read it.
"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned"

Offline Chas

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #173 on: June 16, 2010, 02:51:04 PM »
As I have said before it not so much for me anyway that a fawn was killed but how it was handled and the police chief’s statement that he wasn’t going to discuss it. As far as you having a enough go read a different post. And yes I believe the eyewitness over the cop.

Offline Waynesvillian

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #174 on: June 16, 2010, 03:12:36 PM »
Hahaha I like how they state that people are entitled to their opinions and then tell you that you went to far with one of your opinions and you should stop. 

Offline twinsmom

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #175 on: June 16, 2010, 03:26:02 PM »
ok i've had enough. to say that the officer acted outside of policies is one thing. whether you be wrong or right you are entitled to your opinion. no matter how educated or uneducated you are on how someone else should do their job you have a right to your opinion. but to go so far as to say that this officer is incapable of protecting the public if she needed to fire at a criminal is just wrong! all police departments including waynesville pd have extensive fire arms training and are required to meet standards with their weapon on a regular basis. if you think you are being funny, slander is not a joke. You all are so quick to criticize what the officer did and jump to conclusions regarding her training and abilities but, i'll bet this incident is the farthest thing from your minds if you ever really need a police officer. It's a deer, not an endangered polar bear killed for it's fur. find a real issue, this has gotten out of hand.

This is a little off subject, but I can't resist since Strangduck brought it up. Obviously they don't have the same standards when it comes to their physical fitness as they do their fire arms training. Or maybe they do....that would explain ALOT!! Have you seen some of the WPD? I'd say any officer that is that unfit is incapable of performing their jub duties. How in the world can they chase someone on foot being that out of shape??? Again, I'm not speaking about the whole WDP, just a select few. Look at the difference in the State Troopers and the WPD. I think WPD needs to take a little more pride in their jobs and look a little more presentable to the public.
And if you think walking up to a helpless fawn that is not a threat to anyone and shooting it is ok, you are just as crazy as the officer that did pull the trigger!!!!
I once found a bird hanging upside down in a tree in my back yard. It had gotten tangled up in some string that was in the tree. I cut the string and got the bird down and could tell that its leg was broken. I felt really bad for it, I knew it was probably in pain. But did I choose to just kill it?!?!? No, I called the conservation lady out in Dixon and she came to rescue the bird who did make a full recovery. Good thing I didn't call the WPD!!!


Offline Eden

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #177 on: June 16, 2010, 04:28:16 PM »
So did KY3 ever show up? Wow....seems they had the same training as WPD! Seven shots!
"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned"

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #178 on: June 16, 2010, 05:03:46 PM »
This has gotten far out of hand.
 
A number of issues have been raised which have now been answered. We now know that the officer did not act on her own but rather followed directives of her chain of command. The police chief has taken personal responsibility and has answered questions in public about what he said and why he gave the directives that he did. The city administrator has done the same.
 
So let's lay off the officer: if there is any blame to be had, pin it on the people who gave the orders, not her.
 
But let's be very careful in exactly what we blame on the bosses.
 
First off, much and perhaps most of this never would have happened if the conservation agents had been available to respond, but they weren't. With state budget cuts, the situation will only get worse, so cities and counties are going to have to deal with animal cases like this more and more often in the future.
 
Second, this is not San Francisco. Few if any of us are here are gun-grabbers or opposed to hunting as a matter of principle. This is a rural Ozark community, and one in which large percentages of people have worn uniforms and taken an oath to obey lawful orders. According to state law the order was within the chief's legal rights to give based on his sincerely held belief that the deer was diseased. I don't think anybody here would argue that the officer should have disobeyed a lawful order.
 
So let's examine whether that order was appropriate.
 
Police follow policies laid down by the chief and by the city council. As far as I can tell, existing policies were followed of calling the conservation agent. The police did not have an expert available to determine with certainty whether the deer was sick, but they had at least some grounds to believe it was sick, so they took actions which, according to existing policy, are within the spectrum of appropriate responses to sick animals.
 
What should be done next?
 
Tone down the rhetoric. Turn down the volume. Those of us who are Waynesville residents, if you don't want this to happen again, consider contacting your councilman or councilwoman with specific proposals of what policy changes should be made so it doesn't happen again. Those who are not Waynesville residents have the right to write letters, but the city council can and should be primarily responsive to its own constituents.
 
Here are some examples of questions:
 
1. Existing policy says call the conservation agents. What should happen when they don't call back or can't respond?
 
2. Let's say a new policy is established that police call local vets when the conservation agents do not or cannot respond. What should happen when the vets don't call back or can't respond?
 
3. Let's say a new policy is established that police call a licensed wildlife rehab facility if the local vets in Waynesville can't or don't respond. State law says licensed wildlife rehabbers can only take deer from their own county, and as far as I know, the only such licensed facility in Pulaski County is in Dixon. What should happen if the 30-minute drive from Dixon is too long to wait? What if they don't call back or can't respond?
 
4. Let's say a new policy is established that if animals have to be killed by police, it won't take place in public with people watching. What should happen when an animal can't easily be caught? What if it bites an officer and turns out to be rabid? Worse yet, what if it bites an officer and then can't be caught?
 
Questions like that are currently being handled under officer discretion and chain-of-command issues. Perhaps that should be changed, especially since the state conservation agents are going to be less and less available due to state budget cuts and more and more of these decisions will need to be made by local police. There may be other questions that need to be asked and answered as well if a formal policy is going to be written that limits officer discretion in ways that would have prevented what happened last week.
 
If there is a problem, it is primarily with existing policies and procedures, not with the people who wear the uniform and are carrying out those policies and procedures. Setting policy in response to the views of the public is what elected officials exist to do.
 
But changing those policies is not as easy as it might look for those who don't have to carry a gun and wear a badge. It will take time and careful review. That's what representative democracy is all about
Darrell Todd Maurina
Check out the Pulaski County Daily News online newspaper at
http://www.pulaskicountyweb.com
Cell: (573) 433.6733 * FAX: (573) 774-2349
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Re: Shot a helpless fawn???!!!!
« Reply #179 on: June 16, 2010, 05:17:27 PM »
So you are saying, if she radios back to the office and the police chief tells her to shoot something or somebody she should  do it with no questions asked?  She is the one who told the chief the animal was sick.  She made that call  with no expertise in veterinary medicine, not the chief.  Maybe the chief should have come to look at the deer before he signed its death warrant.  If the fawn had been deathly ill, dying, in pain, then perhaps killing it would have been the answer but not in the CU parking lot and not by shooting it in the face.  I don't care what the chief says, I believe it was shot in the face.  That is what the witnesses saw.

Wrong was done, and I will not tone it down.
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!