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Author Topic: Hartzler Hypocrite?  (Read 9933 times)

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Offline Lepard LLC

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Hartzler Hypocrite?
« on: October 21, 2010, 09:39:39 PM »

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Offline What_The?

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2010, 10:46:06 PM »
I remember a day when this type of lie, alone, would sink a campaign.

I'm sure the apologists are lining up to point out how Ike's vote on cap and trade is destroying the country.

I remember when garbage like this couldn't even get a party nod for the primaries.

Now it seems all you gotta do is hide it, lie about it and say whoever does it is scum, then yell Pelosi every 5 seconds and bam, everything Ike has done for the area is garbage.

Ah well, be careful what you wish for, because you may just get it.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 10:57:36 PM »
You said it.  For the area.  NOT the country

Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 11:06:53 PM »
so Hartzler bitching out of one side of her mouth and making huge deposits from subsidies IS good for the country?
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline What_The?

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2010, 12:13:03 AM »
You said it.  For the area.  NOT the country


Can you quantify exactly what his cap and trade vote did to the country?

Its been a law for a short while, and you seem to have this secret knowledge about how it has ruined America.

So exactly what did Ike's vote cap and trade vote do that is so much more significant than what he has done for the area, which you so glibly dismiss, as if it were nothing, as if every man, woman and child who lives in this community isn't far, far FAR better off because of what Ike has done.

"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline FordGuyu

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2010, 01:05:20 AM »
I remember a day when this type of lie, alone, would sink a campaign.

I'm sure the apologists are lining up to point out how Ike's vote on cap and trade is destroying the country.

I remember when garbage like this couldn't even get a party nod for the primaries.

Now it seems all you gotta do is hide it, lie about it and say whoever does it is scum, then yell Pelosi every 5 seconds and bam, everything Ike has done for the area is garbage.

Ah well, be careful what you wish for, because you may just get it.

I don't agree with a lot of the votes Ike cast this year (probably the vast majority), but I'll take a guy I trust (but disagree with) than somebody I don't trust (and agree with).. . Ike'll have my vote till he doesn't want it.

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2010, 02:29:42 AM »
I expected something about farm subsidies to come out sooner or later, since Hartzler is in the agriculture business. "Hypocrite" and "liar" are strong words, and I avoid using them without very clear proof, but since Vicky Hartzler is using the "L" word about Skelton, I suppose it's not entirely unfair for Hartzler's opponents to use the "H" word abiut her.

However, I'm not going to do it.

Here's the problem. I've been a reporter in Iowa. I understand how heavily subsidized certain parts of the agricultural sector of our economy are. Show me a farmer in a heavily subsidized segment of farming who has turned down farm subsidies and he or she has the right to claim hypocrisy -- but there aren't many of them out there in those segments of agriculture. Also, if someone can show me somewhere that Hartzler has attacked farm subsidies but secretly took them without telling anyone, that would be a clear example of hypocrisy.

Apart from that, it looks like this is the same as any other business incentive -- a businessman may disagree with the incentive being offered to anyone, but once it's part of the standard business model, it becomes all but impossible not to take it and remain competitive. Most members of the city councils of Waynesville and St. Robert objected to the federal stimulus -- will they be blamed later if they run for higher office for applying for stimulus funds?

We made a decision as a country all the way back in the 1930s to have a "cheap food" policy with the government doing all sorts of things to artificially reduce production costs. Some of that was part of FDR's plan to avoid major social unrest -- such as what was going on in Germany that led to food riots and the rise of Nazi power, and elsewhere in Europe was leading to the rise of Communism and socialism -- and I'm not convinced FDR's policies in a 1930s environment were not the best of a bad set of choices. Today, however, we have only a tiny percentage of our population involved in agriculture, food production costs are low enough that they don't require federal subsidies, and transportation costs are low enough that we could easily import most of our food supply like we do manufactured goods and electronics.

I personally would like to see most farm subsidies eliminated. The result, however, would be a mass exodus of much of our agricultural production to Mexico and other third-world countries. That is a very serious consequence to the elimination of farm subsidies, and as someone who supports "buy American," I'm not sure whether the wholesale destruction of our agricultural production capacity is something we want to do.
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Offline Racer

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2010, 02:46:53 AM »
Can you quantify exactly what his cap and trade vote did to the country?

Its been a law for a short while, and you seem to have this secret knowledge about how it has ruined America.

So exactly what did Ike's vote cap and trade vote do that is so much more significant than what he has done for the area, which you so glibly dismiss, as if it were nothing, as if every man, woman and child who lives in this community isn't far, far FAR better off because of what Ike has done.

 
 
Great post...    :{:{:

Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2010, 02:52:42 AM »
I expected something about farm subsidies to come out sooner or later, since Hartzler is in the agriculture business. "Hypocrite" and "liar" are strong words, and I avoid using them without very clear proof, but since Vicky Hartzler is using the "L" word about Skelton, I suppose it's not entirely unfair for Hartzler's opponents to use the "H" word abiut her.

However, I'm not going to do it.

Here's the problem. I've been a reporter in Iowa. I understand how heavily subsidized certain parts of the agricultural sector of our economy are. Show me a farmer in a heavily subsidized segment of farming who has turned down farm subsidies and he or she has the right to claim hypocrisy -- but there aren't many of them out there in those segments of agriculture. Also, if someone can show me somewhere that Hartzler has attacked farm subsidies but secretly took them without telling anyone, that would be a clear example of hypocrisy.

Apart from that, it looks like this is the same as any other business incentive -- a businessman may disagree with the incentive being offered to anyone, but once it's part of the standard business model, it becomes all but impossible not to take it and remain competitive. Most members of the city councils of Waynesville and St. Robert objected to the federal stimulus -- will they be blamed later if they run for higher office for applying for stimulus funds?

We made a decision as a country all the way back in the 1930s to have a "cheap food" policy with the government doing all sorts of things to artificially reduce production costs. Some of that was part of FDR's plan to avoid major social unrest -- such as what was going on in Germany that led to food riots and the rise of Nazi power, and elsewhere in Europe was leading to the rise of Communism and socialism -- and I'm not convinced FDR's policies in a 1930s environment were not the best of a bad set of choices. Today, however, we have only a tiny percentage of our population involved in agriculture, food production costs are low enough that they don't require federal subsidies, and transportation costs are low enough that we could easily import most of our food supply like we do manufactured goods and electronics.

I personally would like to see most farm subsidies eliminated. The result, however, would be a mass exodus of much of our agricultural production to Mexico and other third-world countries. That is a very serious consequence to the elimination of farm subsidies, and as someone who supports "buy American," I'm not sure whether the wholesale destruction of our agricultural production capacity is something we want to do.









well at the very least, I hope it turns down her screechy tone...
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline Pete

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2010, 03:37:49 AM »
I missed the cap and trade being passed by both houses. I thought the Dem's were going to do that during the lame duck period. Just cram it down our necks like they did Obama care. I may be wrong but I think it passed in Congress but not the Senate yet.
If your going to be dumb, you better be tough!

Offline What_The?

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2010, 03:47:16 AM »
I expected something about farm subsidies to come out sooner or later, since Hartzler is in the agriculture business. "Hypocrite" and "liar" are strong words, and I avoid using them without very clear proof, but since Vicky Hartzler is using the "L" word about Skelton, I suppose it's not entirely unfair for Hartzler's opponents to use the "H" word abiut her.

However, I'm not going to do it.

Here's the problem. I've been a reporter in Iowa. I understand how heavily subsidized certain parts of the agricultural sector of our economy are. Show me a farmer in a heavily subsidized segment of farming who has turned down farm subsidies and he or she has the right to claim hypocrisy -- but there aren't many of them out there in those segments of agriculture. Also, if someone can show me somewhere that Hartzler has attacked farm subsidies but secretly took them without telling anyone, that would be a clear example of hypocrisy.

Apart from that, it looks like this is the same as any other business incentive -- a businessman may disagree with the incentive being offered to anyone, but once it's part of the standard business model, it becomes all but impossible not to take it and remain competitive. Most members of the city councils of Waynesville and St. Robert objected to the federal stimulus -- will they be blamed later if they run for higher office for applying for stimulus funds?

We made a decision as a country all the way back in the 1930s to have a "cheap food" policy with the government doing all sorts of things to artificially reduce production costs. Some of that was part of FDR's plan to avoid major social unrest -- such as what was going on in Germany that led to food riots and the rise of Nazi power, and elsewhere in Europe was leading to the rise of Communism and socialism -- and I'm not convinced FDR's policies in a 1930s environment were not the best of a bad set of choices. Today, however, we have only a tiny percentage of our population involved in agriculture, food production costs are low enough that they don't require federal subsidies, and transportation costs are low enough that we could easily import most of our food supply like we do manufactured goods and electronics.

I personally would like to see most farm subsidies eliminated. The result, however, would be a mass exodus of much of our agricultural production to Mexico and other third-world countries. That is a very serious consequence to the elimination of farm subsidies, and as someone who supports "buy American," I'm not sure whether the wholesale destruction of our agricultural production capacity is something we want to do.

What's good for the goose...

I say we piss test her and her whole family for taking subsidies.

Daily.

I wonder how big the gun was that was put to her head to force her to take close to a million dollars in subsidies?

Someone of her convictions surely would have stood up to the evil government's interference in her farm, throwing money at her hand over fist.  It must have been an even bigger gun that made her spend that money, because forcing her to take it wasn't evil enough, the evil government surely had trained snipers following her every step, making her spend nearly a million dollars.

I mean, someone who takes a few seconds and checks out http://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fips=29037&progcode=total&regionname=CassCounty,Missouri and looks at, say, where that ranks her among the recipients in the county, and you'd see those gun toting evil feds gave her enough to put her at number 7 overall in subsidies in Cass County for the period from 1995-2009.

You'd see that ten percent of the farmers collected 74 percent of all subsidies in Cass County during that time.

And you'd see that:

Top 10%: $12,612 average per year between 1995 and 2009.

Bottom 80%: $267 average per year between 1995 and 2009.

So her $55,000 a year was about a gajillion times more than the $267 a year the bottom 80% of the farmers in Cass County averaged over that same time.

http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=29037&statename=CassCounty,Missouri

God, she must REALLY HATE THE GOVERNMENT for forcing her to take so much while so many stood their ground and took so little.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline What_The?

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2010, 04:34:03 AM »
Hey look, it turns out that nearly 60% of all farmers in Missouri didn't take any farm subsidies at all.

And that the top 10% (hey, good nickname for her!) took in 74% of all subsidies in Missouri.

Kinda shoots the whole idea down that this:"Show me a farmer in a heavily subsidized segment of farming who has turned down farm subsidies and he or she has the right to claim hypocrisy -- but there aren't many of them out there in those segments of agriculture" isn't exactly accurate.

http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=29037&statename=CassCounty,Missouri

"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2010, 05:36:37 AM »
John, don't push me into a box of defending farm subsidies. I don't.

I know the history of farm subsidies. We are so far removed from the food riots and civil unrest of the Great Depression, and both ag and manufacturing are so much less a part of our modern economy and society, that I don't think we can fully understand just how serious the political crisis was that our government faced back then.
 
I am not one of the conservatives who consider FDR to be the devil incarnate; he masterfully managed to create the sorts of division in the labor movement that converted unions from being ripe for Communism into stalwarts of blue collar patriotism, and he prevented the open warfare in the streets over lack of food that led to the collapse of governments all over Europe, leading to the rise of both fascism and communism. Farm subsidies accomplished their purpose, and while they may well have been a form of state socialism from the beginning, the alternatives were arguably far worse.

Unfortunately, a system that may have been the best choice out of many bad options in the 1930s has turned into a quagmire. It's not at all clear how to get out of it without wrecking American agriculture and sending most of our ag production into third-world countries.

Subsidies create incentives which may not reflect what the market would produce. Once an incentive is offered to some players in a segment of the market, if the subsidy is large enough or the profit margins are narrow enough, it becomes difficult or impossible to compete without taking the subsidy.

Ag subsidies are far greater in some segments of agriculture than others. Hartzler's type of farming happens to be a more highly subsidized segment of the ag sector.

Furthermore, while you say that 60 percent of farmers don't take subsidies at all, the rise of "hobby farmers" who qualify for agriculture tax valuation on their land but make only part of their income from farming skews the subsidy numbers. Three or four generations ago, someone owning a 40-acre farm was probably a full-time farmer. Today, their great-grandson living on the same farm may be a teacher who due to technology can run what is now considered a small-scale farm operation in his spare time. Someone whose primary business is farming will almost by definition have more land, and therefore more subsidies, than the large majority of people considered by the IRS to own farms but who really have a part-time occupation of farming. We cannot and should not penalize small-scale farm operations by taking away the lower tax valuations on their land, but let's not try to pretend that everyone who owns "farmland" is a full-time farmer.

BTW, since you cited the Cass County data, here are the Pulaski County subsidy numbers.

John, you're a Democrat. Are you prepared to criticize Democratic County Treasurer Morris Roam and now-deceased Democratic County Collector George Berry for taking subsidies? (And yes, I'm well aware that Republicans Joe Thornsberry and Charles Bassett are on this list, but Bassett is not an elected official and Thornsberry has been out of office for a long time.)

Subsidy Recipients 1 to 20 of 386
Recipients of Total USDA Subsidies from farms in Pulaski County, Missouri totaled $2,379,000 in from 1995-2009.
 
Rank Recipient
(* ownership information available) Location Total USDA Subsidies
1995-2009
1 Kent G Garrett Newburg, MO 65550 $151,761
2 Fairel Garrett Newburg, MO 65550 $129,866
3 James W Brackett Richland, MO 65556 $128,247
4 Jerry Warner Richland, MO 65556 $80,278
5 John E Johnson Richland, MO 65556 $40,054
6 4 J Land And Cattle ∗ Waynesville, MO 65583 $37,960
7 James R Black Jr Richland, MO 65556 $37,592
8 Paul L Ray Dixon, MO 65459 $33,745
9 Joe D Thornsberry Crocker, MO 65452 $32,596
10 Charles Dale Tallant Waynesville, MO 65583 $31,649
11 Morris E Roam Crocker, MO 65452 $30,890
12 Paul Gifford Laquey, MO 65534 $29,646
13 Atra Data Inc Circle A Ranch West ∗ Lake Ozark, MO 65049 $27,286
14 Charles Storie Waynesville, MO 65583 $26,817
15 Charles Bassett Dixon, MO 65459 $26,025
16 Jon Ray Dixon, MO 65459 $22,901
17 Morgan Farm Inc ∗ Waynesville, MO 65583 $22,883
18 Rick Blackburn Dixon, MO 65459 $21,403
19 Richard C Hamilton Waynesville, MO 65583 $20,528
20 George Berry Laquey, MO 65534 $19,779



Hey look, it turns out that nearly 60% of all farmers in Missouri didn't take any farm subsidies at all.

And that the top 10% (hey, good nickname for her!) took in 74% of all subsidies in Missouri.

Kinda shoots the whole idea down that this:"Show me a farmer in a heavily subsidized segment of farming who has turned down farm subsidies and he or she has the right to claim hypocrisy -- but there aren't many of them out there in those segments of agriculture" isn't exactly accurate.

http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=29037&statename=CassCounty,Missouri


Darrell Todd Maurina
Check out the Pulaski County Daily News online newspaper at
http://www.pulaskicountyweb.com
Cell: (573) 433.6733 * FAX: (573) 774-2349
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Offline What_The?

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2010, 06:33:11 AM »
John, don't push me into a box of defending farm subsidies. I don't.


John, you're a Democrat. Are you prepared to criticize Democratic County Treasurer Morris Roam and now-deceased Democratic County Collector George Berry for taking subsidies? (And yes, I'm well aware that Republicans Joe Thornsberry and Charles Bassett are on this list, but Bassett is not an elected official and Thornsberry has been out of office for a long time.)


Who is this "John" you speak of, me?

Sorry, I am not John.   :)

As for the rest, doesn't it bug you in the least that Hartzler is taking so much federal subsidy money, while railing against it?

Nearly a million bucks, averaging $55,000 a year in federal farm subsidies, during a time when so many are struggling to make ends meet, to feed their families, pay rent, do anything but scrape by, and she's pulling in almost three times the per capita income of Cass County in subsidies alone!

Now me and John aren't asking you to defend subsidies, or to drag people in Pulaski County through the mud, but come on, there has to be a point when even you have to admit, for someone like Hartzler, whose positions against government spending are clearly defined, to take in nearly a million bucks in farm subsidies seems very hypocritical, when so few farmers in her county are taking in more than a few hundred dollars per year.

80% of the farmers in Cass County took in less than $300 per year during the time she averaged $55,000 a year. 

Finger pointing at Pulaski County aside, why not address her, rather than trying to drag people in Pulaski County through the mud?
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline 2CardJohnE

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2010, 02:04:13 PM »
7
Harrisonville, MO 64701
$774,489
John Wayne said it best, "I may not have voted for him, but he is MY President

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2010, 02:41:09 PM »
Who is this "John" you speak of, me? Sorry, I am not John.   :)

Not intentional. I copied a Facebook post responding to John Ichord, added a bunch of things, and failed to delete the person to whom the post was originally addressed.

As for dragging Pulaski County people through the mud, personally I find it very interesting that not just Joe Thornsberry but Dennis Thornsberry took farm subsidies. Unlike Hartzler (as far as I know), Dennis Thornsberry **DOES** attack government intervention in agriculture regularly. I wish I'd known that information when he was running for presiding commissioner before he got defeated.

So far nobody has shown me how Hartzler accepting ag subsidies is much different from Steve Ehrhardt accepting TIFF funds from the city of St. Robert to build his hotels. I don't like the system, but we have incentives as part of doing business all over this country. Unless someone shows me clear proof that Hartzler opposed farm subsidies and took them anyway and tried to hide it, I think this may be a secondary issue.
Darrell Todd Maurina
Check out the Pulaski County Daily News online newspaper at
http://www.pulaskicountyweb.com
Cell: (573) 433.6733 * FAX: (573) 774-2349
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darrellmaurina/
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Offline Chas

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2010, 03:35:34 PM »
DTM, while you are right subsidies are part of a business model today and have been in the past, IT is hypocrisy to say I want government out of my/our lives, and then accept money from the same government. However, you try to spin it.  For those of you that claim Iím not voting someone because while they may good for the area, they are not good for the country. You people should never post anything about buy and hire locally.  Sure hiring locally is good for the area, but hiring outside the area may be good for the country.  Back to You DTM I believe you are missing the point here. The subject is the hypocrisy of accepting money from a government that a person has said I want them out of our lives.  Is Steve Ehrhardt running for congress or is he a local business owner taking advantage of a system put in place by people in congress. To me there is a difference.  I also agree with What_the it was in poor taste for you to bring in local people to try to prove your point.  I also love it when you fall off you moral high horse as you did with post. Before you say Iím not a moral high horse, go back and read some of your post.  They start out with; It is time I step in here, I need to caution everyone, however my favorite ones are when someone is clearly joking about something or just making snide remark in general and you have to give a speech about it. Hilarious! 


Offline What_The?

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2010, 03:43:36 PM »
I think you are missing the big picture, DTM.

Hartzler's position on government and spending are clear- except when it comes to stuffing her own bank account with close to a million dollars and counting.

Of course she hasn't come out and said directly that farm subsidies are evil- why would she when she's gotten so fat off the largess of the government that she criticizes for "wasteful spending" and "saddling our children and grandchildren with debt." 

Hartzler claims that Ike, Pelosi and Obama are wasting all this money, and here she is, hand out, bank account stuffed full of taxpayer money, saying out of one side of her mouth that government spending is destroying our country while out of the other side of her mouth she's taking in hundreds of thousands of dollars in farm subsidies.

Its absolutely hypocritical when you take into account how few dollars are going to the vast majority of farmers not only in Missouri, but in her county specifically. 

80% of the farmers in her county averaged taking in less than $300 per year.

Hartzler averaged $55,000 a year.

HUGE hypocritical difference there.

The top 10% in her county averaged $12,600 a year.

She's taking in four times that amount per year!

Since you want to drag Pulaski County into it, look at the numbers.

The top recipient in Pulaski county for the years 1995-2009, 14 years, took in $151,000.

In 1999 Hartzler took in $89,000.

In 2000 Hartzler took in another $89,000.

In 2001 alone Hartzler took in a whopping $135,000!

In 2005 another $105,000 to fatten Hartzler's bank account.

There hasn't been a single year from 1995-2009 that Hartzler didn't take more than the YEARLY per capita income of her home county in farm subsidies.

Meanwhile, 80% of the farmers in her home county took in an average about $22.00 a month.

$267 a year.

Then you look at the national numbers-a program that gives away $156.2 BILLION a year, and the national average for the top 10% of farm subsidy recipients was $29,675.

Hartzler alone is taking in, on average, nearly twice as much in farm subsidies as the top 10% of farms nationally.

Now deflect and drag all the Pulaski County residents through the mud that you want.

Their subsidy payments pale in comparison to the wealth that Hartzler has accumulated through the years, and she's the one running for national office on the platform of anti-waste.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline Hi

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2010, 04:15:35 PM »
So the only thing you have on her is she runs a succesfull farm corporation with her family that is bigger in nature and volume than most of the other farms in her county, bigger farm = bigger subsidy that ALL farmers get (their choice to take it or not).  The big spending shes accuseing the demogods of is needless speding bailing out private companies and wall street banks with government dollars, not giving the people who create our nations food money.  You act like shes taking money under the table from some special interest group, the money shes taking is money given to her for being an integral part of our nations agricultural network.

Offline What_The?

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2010, 04:21:08 PM »
So the only thing you have on her is she runs a succesfull farm corporation with her family that is bigger in nature and volume than most of the other farms in her county, bigger farm = bigger subsidy that ALL farmers get (their choice to take it or not).  The big spending shes accuseing the demogods of is needless speding bailing out private companies and wall street banks with government dollars, not giving the people who create our nations food money.  You act like shes taking money under the table from some special interest group, the money shes taking is money given to her for being an integral part of our nations agricultural network.

I don't think you quite grasp how subsidies work.

If, in fact, she is so successful with her farm, there would be no need for her to take in nearly a million dollars in taxpayer funds, at all.

Subsidies are not paid as a reward for success, they are not paid based on need, and they are not paid based on the condition of the national economy or the farm economy.

"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2010, 07:04:28 PM »
Chas and others: I am not a defender of farm subsidies. I believe they are a bad idea in the modern economy and have been a bad idea for a long time, though at one point they were at least arguably necessary, but I frankly don't know how to get rid of them without destroying the American agriculture industry. The attack on Vicky Hartzler for taking farm subsidies could also be made against virtually anyone else with a large agriculture operation. State Sen. Bill Stouffer, who she defeated in the Republican primary, is also a major recipient of farm subsidies.

Now on the "moral high horse" comment:

You're right. I do say "It is time I step in here," "I need to caution everyone," and similar phrases. When I see things being said that are **WAY** out of line, I usually wait a while to see if the problem takes care of itself on its own with other people taking care of the problem by correcting wrong information or defending people who have been unjustifiably attacked. When that doesn't happen, I need to step in.

Why? I will not and in fact cannot sit back and allow libel to go on, or in certain cases I run the risk of getting dragged into a lawsuit. I also cannot sit back and allow total falsehoods, misrepresentations, or even honest misunderstandings to get into the public rumor mill when I know they are not true.

I see no need to apologize for trying to prevent people's reputations from being destroyed with little or no basis in fact. Every major internet news site has to deal with the problems caused by wide dissemination of purported facts by people who remain anonymous and therefore are effectively unaccountable. I don't have a long-term solution for the problem, and neither does anyone else, but a short-term solution is to speak up when stuff is being said that is either not true or not proveable.



DTM, while you are right subsidies are part of a business model today and have been in the past, IT is hypocrisy to say I want government out of my/our lives, and then accept money from the same government. However, you try to spin it.  For those of you that claim I’m not voting someone because while they may good for the area, they are not good for the country. You people should never post anything about buy and hire locally.  Sure hiring locally is good for the area, but hiring outside the area may be good for the country.  Back to You DTM I believe you are missing the point here. The subject is the hypocrisy of accepting money from a government that a person has said I want them out of our lives.  Is Steve Ehrhardt running for congress or is he a local business owner taking advantage of a system put in place by people in congress. To me there is a difference.  I also agree with What_the it was in poor taste for you to bring in local people to try to prove your point.  I also love it when you fall off you moral high horse as you did with post. Before you say I’m not a moral high horse, go back and read some of your post.  They start out with; It is time I step in here, I need to caution everyone, however my favorite ones are when someone is clearly joking about something or just making snide remark in general and you have to give a speech about it. Hilarious! 


Darrell Todd Maurina
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Offline Vado Del Rio

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2010, 07:12:02 PM »
I wonder how many liberal progressives are currently paying the Bush tax rates rather than the Clinton era rates ???  The government will gladly accept any additional money.  I wonder how many folks accept the "redistribution of wealth" earned income tax credit when it was never EARNED to begin with ???
How many participate in the reduced lunch programs, WIC, housing, healthcare, head start, etc. etc. etc.............

The Hartzler family merely participated in a already established government program.  She had nothing to do with the establishment of the program itself.

Makes one wonder who established all these Goobermint programs to begin with, AND WHY !!!  Obviously it's congressional members, past and present.  Why, because votes, reelection, and appeasing the local constituency are PRIORITY ONE.

This isn't a Pro Hartzler reply either.  It's merely my discontent with gooberment in general.

Offline Chas

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2010, 07:47:41 PM »
I donít have a problem with reduced lunch programs, WIC, housing etcÖ I see them as needed programs. Some people donít and that is their choice.  I donít have a problem with most farmers getting a subsidy.  What I have a problem with, is someone running for office bad- mouthing policies that they themselves reap the benefits from.  To say that bailouts are bad but where is my subsidy check is hypocrisy. $55,000 a year for the last 15 years is a lot of subsidy money when a lot people donít make that in a year period. The program itself should be overhauled anyone making the kind of money she is doesnít need a subsidy.

Hartzler Equipment CO is a private company categorized under Farm Implements and located in Harrisonville, MO. Our records show it was established in 1977 and incorporated in Missouri. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of $5 to 10 million and employs a staff of approximately 20 to 49.
http://www.manta.com/c/mmf52nc/hartzler-equipment-co

... Nevada, MO. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of $5 to 10 million and employs a staff of approximately 10 to 19.
http://www.manta.com/c/mm02tr6/hartzler-equipment-co

Offline Pete

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2010, 04:54:36 AM »
All BS aside, at least she in imploying 50 folks or so. Wonder whats going to happen to them once the health care and taxes kick in. I don't think $55,000 a year will put a dent in it. I could be wrong. If the Gov is handing it out almost everyone will take it. Maybe she can put a stop to some of it. How many of you know folks getting food stamps and selling them for half price in cash.
If your going to be dumb, you better be tough!

Offline What_The?

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2010, 05:00:57 AM »
See the posts above about how in fact, most are NOT getting it, are not getting nearly as much as her, and are not making millions per year while saying government waste is a problem.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2010, 05:07:27 AM »
how many people would be unemployed without some of the other bail-outs that she is screeching about? but as long as she makes a profit it's okay?
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline 2CardJohnE

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2010, 02:22:56 PM »
All BS aside, at least she in imploying 50 folks or so. Wonder whats going to happen to them once the health care and taxes kick in. I don't think $55,000 a year will put a dent in it. I could be wrong. If the Gov is handing it out almost everyone will take it. Maybe she can put a stop to some of it. How many of you know folks getting food stamps and selling them for half price in cash.
  Health care is "kicking in" as you put it.  mine is only going up 2% from the $44 every pay period.  but my company now offers a no smoking incentive of $25 a month they are deducting from my total cost so i will be paying less over this next year.  no need to fear Obama care and i agree with what_the?   why so much for her and so little for most e1 else in her county
John Wayne said it best, "I may not have voted for him, but he is MY President

Offline fish

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2010, 10:56:35 PM »
She is operating several businesses with her husband. how many jobs are they providing? How much are they paynig in taxes that benefit the areas? Their subsidies are not a handout. that is part of the system. Many other politicians from both sides of the aisle have been collecting subsidies for years. Criticize them all and not just the ones running for office this year. that is hypocritical.

Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2010, 11:01:41 PM »
She is operating several businesses with her husband. how many jobs are they providing? How much are they paynig in taxes that benefit the areas? Their subsidies are not a handout. that is part of the system. Many other politicians from both sides of the aisle have been collecting subsidies for years. Criticize them all and not just the ones running for office this year. that is hypocritical.
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Hartzler Hypocrite?
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2010, 11:07:57 PM »
She is operating several businesses with her husband. how many jobs are they providing? How much are they paynig in taxes that benefit the areas? Their subsidies are not a handout. that is part of the system. Many other politicians from both sides of the aisle have been collecting subsidies for years. Criticize them all and not just the ones running for office this year. that is hypocritical.




they provide less than 100 jobs... actually from their farm 55...but yet the balouts that she continiues to wail about provide many more jobs than that...si that excuse doed not wash... and to the rest of  you Ike bashers, the money that we get in Pulaski and Johnson counties, wich you all apparwntly just disregard, also goes into the state and federal coffers....and Hartzler can do that how?
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.