Author Topic: Extortion?  (Read 12652 times)

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Offline JuneBug67

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Extortion?
« on: December 24, 2010, 03:17:17 AM »

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My son got a speeding ticket in Waynesville and for a Christmas present my husband and I went to pay it, yesterday. We were told if we would pay them $195 we could keep the $45 ticket of his record so our insurance rates wouldn't go up. So I can pay off the city. Are you kidding me?
There is NEVER a right way to do the wrong thing!

Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2010, 03:28:19 AM »
Who told you that? That is very interesting..
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline JuneBug67

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2010, 03:33:42 AM »
Went to the municipal building to pay the ticket and we refused. She REALLY tried to talk us into paying the higher amount telling us that our insurance company would not let us drop him from our insurance once he joins the military because of "tougher laws" insurance companies were "cracking down".
There is NEVER a right way to do the wrong thing!

Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2010, 03:40:59 AM »
I believe I would try to speak to the city attorney next week and check that out...sure seems shady to me.
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline tpgunbiz

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2010, 05:41:57 AM »
Its a common thing for a city to do at least here. Should have paid it. Now its going to show on your insurance. lol
The state is cracking down on this practice since alot of DUI's get plead down to faulty equipment or something else to keep the Dui off their record and the city gets more money by doing so.
Biscuit

Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2010, 02:56:00 PM »
My daughter (18) got a speeding ticket on her temporary license.  I was thrilled when they told me for a few dollars more it could be changed to a "faulty equipment" ticket.  Saved me a bunch of money on my insurance and kept her from having to wait another year to get her license.  I wouldn't call it extortion, I call it a courtesy.
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!

Offline Lepard LLC

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2010, 03:00:19 PM »
LOL. You forget, they flip coins for the job of mayor there.


My son got a speeding ticket in Waynesville and for a Christmas present my husband and I went to pay it, yesterday. We were told if we would pay them $195 we could keep the $45 ticket of his record so our insurance rates wouldn't go up. So I can pay off the city. Are you kidding me?

Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2010, 03:23:27 PM »
I just read that again, his ticket was only $45 and they wanted you to pay an additional $150?  That is a little steep.  I paid an additional $20 on an $80 ticket.  That seemed like a very good deal to me.  I don't know about the $150.
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2010, 04:16:58 PM »
Smells of corruption to me ?  If it's legal it shouldn't be.  it sounds like a plea bargin with out the lawyers being involved.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2010, 04:21:37 PM »
No wonder they can afford all that nice new equipment?

Offline What_The?

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2010, 04:32:49 PM »
Its another example of how there are 2 sets of laws for the rich and the poor.  If you pay enough, there are ways of getting out of "trouble" that aren't available to most working class regular folks.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline matrsnot

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2010, 04:44:12 PM »
somthing like Ted Kennedy and Ben Johns huh?  Both committed murders. Only one was held accountable.  Money talks.  Funny the "working class" being brought up.  Term used in the USSR too.  Just like Fatherland and Homeland.  Just some other comparisons.  What you have said is and always has been a truism.  Short and to the point:  Money talks and bullshit walks.  Same kind of "extortion" used by the Sewer District. 

Offline JuneBug67

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2010, 04:55:59 PM »
The thing that got me the most was the "it's going to get reported" and her persistence is trying to get us to pay the higher amount,

My thoughts on this are

1:  How do you teach kids to be responsible if you always bail them out by paying their fines? The reason we did this time, and our son doesn't even know yet, is because it was something he asked for Christmas. His receipt will be wrapped and under the tree in lieu of another gift.

2: How would you know if your kids are getting tickets when they can go down and pay to make sure you don't find out?

3. I believe this could be a form of discrimination against the poor.

4. My son is joining the military and will be out on his own by the time are policy is renewed again and he will have to pay the higher rates because HE chose not to follow the posted speed limit.

Bottom line is how can this practice be legal?
There is NEVER a right way to do the wrong thing!

Offline Chas

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2010, 05:26:08 PM »
It is extortion. I guess it could be looked at as a courtesy, if you can afford it.  I wonder how much to get off on a drug charge or murder? We know you sold meth but for $1000 we will reduce it to jaywalking and you wont have to go to jail.

Offline Valor7

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2010, 08:14:15 PM »
Most insurance companies run your driving record every three years or so and the fact you got the UTT will usually jump out at them. The disposition is what counts. As to the system of doing this switch off on charges I have only been in enforcement for forty years and I cannot say for sure that it dates back more than that.
 
The PA may charge or amend a charge, or dismiss a charge at their .......... wish, pleasure, desire, want, leisure, opinion, option, and any other word you can think of.
 
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Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2010, 08:24:17 PM »
I remember when you could buy your way out of dwi by donating to the law library fund..pretty sure that was 500.00, and you got reduced to c and i
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline Valor7

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2010, 08:26:48 PM »
I remember when you could buy your way out of dwi by donating to the law library fund..pretty sure that was 500.00, and you got reduced to c and i

  I believe your memory is still good.
JB

Offline Chas

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2010, 08:31:23 PM »
This the PA office doing this or another city official? Either way nice kick back

Offline kevinhillman

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2010, 08:51:08 PM »
It is not illegal to amend tickets, it is called prosecutor's discretion and plea bargining.  There are times when I will amend a ticket to a non-moving violation for someone and charge more.  I typically charge a little less than double the standard fine.  I have had speeding tickets before and I know I appreciated the fact that the prosecutor would give me the option.  There are also times when driving school or community service are in order.
 
There was some debate a few years ago about whether this was ethical or not.  The Missouri Supreme Court Discplinary Council rendered an opinion that said it was acceptable to do.  Therefore, like it or not, it is the system we have.
 
As to the amount, each prosecutor has their own way of doing this.  I believe they must have a set amount to amend the tickets and that is why the clerk offered that to you.  If you want to speak with the city prosecutor, I would.  He may cut the amount down or offer some alternatives. 

 
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Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2010, 08:57:30 PM »
I know its done all the time, and I am not actually against it, just thought 195 bucks for a speeding ticket was a bit much.
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline JuneBug67

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2010, 09:08:32 PM »
Unless Waynesville had a new prosecutor it is a city employee
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Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2010, 09:14:46 PM »
Well apparently they have a scale to go by...Now a person just needs to decide if it is worth that much money for a speeding ticket....
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

Offline Chas

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2010, 09:34:11 PM »
OK it is legal and it is good to know. I would take advantage of it and will next time if I'm able to. But it still a kick back. No different then an inspector saying if you pay me this much I will let you slide on this. Will there is one difference this is legal.  Since I'm one of the ones usually complaining that there to much enforcement going on.  I shouldn't be complaining about a loop hole.

Offline 2CardJohnE

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2010, 11:19:08 PM »
It is not illegal to amend tickets, it is called prosecutor's discretion and plea bargining.  There are times when I will amend a ticket to a non-moving violation for someone and charge more.  I typically charge a little less than double the standard fine.  I have had speeding tickets before and I know I appreciated the fact that the prosecutor would give me the option.  There are also times when driving school or community service are in order.
 
There was some debate a few years ago about whether this was ethical or not.  The Missouri Supreme Court Discplinary Council rendered an opinion that said it was acceptable to do.  Therefore, like it or not, it is the system we have.
 
As to the amount, each prosecutor has their own way of doing this.  I believe they must have a set amount to amend the tickets and that is why the clerk offered that to you.  If you want to speak with the city prosecutor, I would.  He may cut the amount down or offer some alternatives.
  So the PA can pick any amount he wants out of thin air to justify amending certain violations of the law?   Is it not written down how much the fine and court cost would be for going X amount over the speed limit.  but this "amend fee" is not written down anywheres in the books.    Why is that? and is it even written down that a violation has 2 sets of fines and fees and we can choose which one we want?
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Offline darrellmaurina

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2010, 12:18:15 AM »
FYI, I was prepared to do a big story on Laura Kriebs four years ago if she had run for re-election pointing out the **HUGE** numbers of "loud mufflers" that must be on cars driving around Pulaski County, and noting how many of them were reductions from speeding far above the legal limit -- and I do **NOT** mean 5 or 10 over -- or other serious driving offenses.

Plea bargaining is a part of our court system. I understand that. The only alternative is hiring a much larger court staff, prosecutorial staff, and jail staff. However, what gets pleaded down and what it gets pleaded down to can sometimes become newsworthy.
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Offline okie the thread killer

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2010, 12:23:27 AM »
you should have been here "in the day". lol....although, I really had no problem with it then either...part time prosecutor, very small jail, over worked courts....
I have it on good authority that the Hokey-Pokey really IS what it's all about.

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2010, 12:45:57 AM »
  So the PA can pick any amount he wants out of thin air to justify amending certain violations of the law?   Is it not written down how much the fine and court cost would be for going X amount over the speed limit.  but this "amend fee" is not written down anywheres in the books.    Why is that? and is it even written down that a violation has 2 sets of fines and fees and we can choose which one we want?
You of all people should know this is true 2card.
seeing the position you Father held.
I have seen many a Military person get a DUI/DWI reduced down to 3 minor charges with a maximum fine.
So it didn't go on there Military 201 file.
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Offline What_The?

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2010, 12:52:52 AM »
"Improper safety equipment" was popular back in the day.  Looking at it from the outside, I can see why its done, on both sides, but it does put the violator in a pickle.  Play the game and pay a huge fine or watch your premiums skyrocket.  Maybe the real culprit is the insurance companies who look for any reason to jack your rates up.  Either way, Merry Christmas.
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God almighty Himself hates with you, too. Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side." - Kurt Vonnegut

Offline JuneBug67

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2010, 02:23:46 AM »
No one said plea or amend. It was pay this amount and we won't report it to your insurance. That is extortion!!!! I don't care what you want to call it.
There is NEVER a right way to do the wrong thing!

Offline kevinhillman

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Re: Extortion?
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2010, 02:29:21 AM »
There are limits to what can be done and what the fine amount is, set by statute.  In addition, the judge has to approve of it.  However, you are right that the prosecutor does have a lot of discretion in what can be done.  That's why it is an important job.  Hopefully, I don't turn out to be a loon.
 
Please be careful with the term kickback.  A kickback would be if the prosecutor gets a bribe to do the deal.  That is highly illegal and happened a couple of years ago up in Lake Ozark.  When the fine is increased, either the city or state gets the money and there is no benefit to the prosecutor.  I know the city prosecutor in Waynesville and he is a good and honorable person and NOT taking kickbacks.  I know that is not what you meant, but I want that to be clear.
 
I will also tell you that in response to Darrell's comment about Laura, it is an issue about time and resources.  That's not to mean you don't deal with serious traffic tickets.  However, my main focus is going to be on the serious crimes like murder, rape, etc. 
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