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Author Topic: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce  (Read 4293 times)

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Offline ♥♣ ~Maynard~♣♥

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Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« on: December 11, 2011, 10:03:36 PM »

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  Saturday, December 10 2011   
(Washington, DC) -- The Pentagon is preparing for a massive budget cut that could amount to $600 billion in 2013.

The Army says it will begin by cutting about 8,700 civilian positions.
For more of this story click link
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Offline Pete

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 06:00:19 AM »
I remember cutting grass, KP, working with DPW to repair buildings that needed doors, windowes etc fixed. Looks like the new Army is going back to the old ways. Walking to the field because we didn't have fuel and only qualifying twice a year to save money on bullits. Welcome back to the Clinton years.
If your going to be dumb, you better be tough!

Offline fish

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 12:28:15 AM »
a lot of soldiers coming back from iraq this month. they gotta go somewhere. that will add pressure to the bases.

Offline dixonbob

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 04:00:04 AM »
This retreating from Iraq really raises questions. What did we accomplish? Sadam Hussains dead. Woo Hoo the terrorists are still there and they hate America and it cost us 4 trillion dollars. Soon as we leave its gonna be the same. There will never be peace in the middle east. Its been going on for what now? 4000 years? George Jr in MY opinion went back to attempt to finish what his daddy started and didnt get the job done. We need to worry about America.
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Offline Coyote

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 02:42:49 PM »
8,700 more unemployed people.  How do you save billions when you have to pay out billions in unemployment, food stamps, etc?
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline Fafrd

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 09:52:55 PM »
In this case most of the 8700 would be early retirements no unemployement or food stamps

Offline mark

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 10:05:33 PM »
  We have 700 bases in 130 countries. Its past time to cut back a little. As Ron Paul says...We don't need to be in everyone's business.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
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Offline Coyote

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2011, 08:20:44 PM »
I have a friend retiring this month.  GS-7 with 37 years federal service (he bought back his 3 years of active duty).  He is 56 years old.  His federal retirement pay will be $1.00 more than he is making at work now.  He has another job lined up.  So how does the country save by forced retirements?

In this case most of the 8700 would be early retirements no unemployement or food stamps

....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline mark

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2011, 08:55:12 PM »
 In the case of your friend it doesn't sound like we are saving anything but....We have to make cuts in big government and the military. Its gotten out of control. We shouldn't have to finance all the worlds problems.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
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Offline Fafrd

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 10:08:14 PM »
I have a friend retiring this month.  GS-7 with 37 years federal service (he bought back his 3 years of active duty).  He is 56 years old.  His federal retirement pay will be $1.00 more than he is making at work now.  He has another job lined up.  So how does the country save by forced retirements?

Doesnt sound like he is going to be on unemployment or food stamps.  Most people i know that have retired make half the income they made while working.  So i would say your friend is doing damn well to make a dollar more than when he is working. and if he needs to find a job after retirement.  Then he must need that second job now as well. so he is in the same boat before and after retirement.  He might need to consider looking into where to make cuts in his lifestyle.  We are all faced with economic hardships atm.  I had to take a paycut where im working, so i had to cut out some things that i was spending money on.

In the case of your friend it doesn't sound like we are saving anything but....We have to make cuts in big government and the military. Its gotten out of control. We shouldn't have to finance all the worlds problems.

Military spending has nothing to do with "financing all the worlds problems" thats falls under foreign aid  Two different things.  Yes we need to have our government reign in the spending.  Intead of cutting military spending, work on cutting in fraud in contracts to the military.. No more 100 dollar hammers, as an example...do that no need to cut military spending and keep our armed forces alone.

Offline mark

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 10:21:12 PM »
You think 700 bases in 130 countries and dropping million dollar bombs and (fighting.....where are we 5 current wars now)? doesn't cost anything?
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
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Offline mark

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 10:27:56 PM »
U.S. Military Spending Is Out Of Control: 12 Facts That Show That We Cannot Afford To Be The Police Of The World
Today, the United States has become the police of the world.  The U.S. military has a total of over 700 military bases in 130 countries around the world.  Total military spending by the U.S. government is nearly equal to the combined military spending of the rest of the globe.  Meanwhile, the federal government is literally drowning in debt.  So if we make some significant cuts to military spending will we fix the national debt problem?  Of course not.  In fact, it would only put a small dent in it.  But at least it would help.  The truth is that we cannot afford to be the police of the world and the Pentagon wastes so much money that it is almost incomprehensible.  Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld once publicly admitted that the Pentagon lost track of 2.3 trillion dollars and cannot tell us how it was spent.  Just imagine how your boss would react if you lost track of just 2.3 thousand dollars.  So why wasn't there more of an uproar about losing track of 2.3 trillion dollars?  Have we become so accustomed to military waste that we don't even care anymore?

Not that we don't need a strong military.  The truth is that liberals are dead wrong when they claim that we now live in a world where a strong military is no longer necessary.  China is a bigger threat than it ever has been before.  Russia is a bigger threat than it ever has been before.  North Korea is absolutely insane and they have nuclear weapons.  There are several other radical regimes around the globe that are working hard toward getting nuclear weapons.

But you know what?  The U.S. military is spread so thin right now that they could not even respond adequately if a real threat did emerge.  Trying to be the police of the world is not only incredibly costly, it is also strategic suicide.

What possible justification could there possibly be for having U.S. troops in 130 different nations?

Why in the world do we still need huge contingents of troops in Germany and Japan?  It is funny when people talk about us pulling out of Afghanistan or Iraq, because we never even pulled out of Germany or Japan after World War II.  Once the U.S. military gets boots on the ground somewhere, they very rarely ever leave.

Look, it is about darn time that nations like Japan and Germany learned to defend themselves.  Nobody is going to invade them any time soon.  Everyone knows they are protected by U.S. nukes.  So why do we have to station so many troops in both countries?

We are spending so many resources patrolling the streets of Iraq and rounding up goat herders in Afghanistan that we aren't even preparing ourselves for the real threats.  If World War III does break out in the coming years, it is probably going to be the United States against an allied front of Russia and China.  But we aren't preparing to fight that war.  Instead, Bush and Obama have been slashing our nuclear arsenal to the bone as they obsessively hunt for "boogeymen" in the caves of the Middle East.

So in our attempt to police the world, we are spending way too much money, our military is stretched far too thin and we aren't even preparing to fight our real threats.

The truth is that U.S. military spending is totally out of control.  The following are 12 facts that show that we cannot afford to be the police of the world....

#1 Today the U.S. military has over 700 bases (some say it is actually over 1000 bases) in 130 different countries around the globe.  It is estimated that it costs about $100 billion a year to maintain these bases.

#2 The U.S. military budget for 2010 was $693 billion.

#3 However, when you throw in all "off budget" items and other categories of "defense" spending not covered in the Pentagon budget you get a grand total of somewhere between $1.01 and $1.35 trillion spent on national defense in 2010.

#4 The truth is that U.S. military spending is greater than the military spending of China, Russia, Japan, India, and the rest of NATO combined.

#5 Total U.S. military spending makes up approximately 44 percent of all the military spending on the entire globe.

#6 The Pentagon currently gobbles up 56 percent of all discretionary spending by the federal government.

#7 Together, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan cost more than $150 billion a year.

#8 Up to this point, it is estimated that the U.S. government has spent over 373 billion dollars on the war in Afghanistan.

#9 Up to this point, it is estimated the the U.S. government has spent over 745 billion dollars on the war in Iraq.

#10 Since 2001, the total cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan breaks down to $3,644 for every man, woman and child in the United States.

#11 The total price tag for each F-22 fighter jet is approximately $350 million.

#12 The Sustainable Defense Task Force has produced a report which shows that the U.S. could easily slash a trillion dollars from the defense budget over the next ten years.

But isn't the U.S. the wealthiest nation in the world?

Can't the U.S. government afford all of this military spending?

No.

The truth is that the U.S. government has accumulated the biggest mountain of debt in the history of the world.

The U.S. national debt is 13 times larger than it was just 30 years ago.  We are literally drowning in red ink, and the farther you project things into the future, the more apocalyptic the financial outlook becomes.

We have become so addicted to debt that we have borrowed hundreds of billions of dollars from China, Russia and other strategic enemies in recent years - thus putting our national security at risk.

Sadly, as bad as they are, the "official" budget deficit figures are largely a fraud.  If the U.S. government was forced to use GAAP accounting principles (like all publicly-traded corporations must), the U.S. government budget deficit would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $4 trillion to $5 trillion.

But establishment Democrats and establishment Republicans have both refused to take a stand on all this debt.  That is one of the reasons why so many Americans have been attracted to the Tea Party movement.

Unfortunately, we have now reached a point where an economic collapse seems virtually inevitable.  There is no way that we are going to be able to continue to police the world.  In fact, unless our military spending becomes far more efficient and far more focused on the real threats we may not even be able to protect our own nation when the time comes.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline Fafrd

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 10:33:27 PM »
You think 700 bases in 130 countries and dropping million dollar bombs and (fighting.....where are we 5 current wars now)? doesn't cost anything?

You were talking about military spending and financing the worlds problems (foreign Aid)  are two totally different things.  And the cost of the wars we are in is not techinically what is considered as the military budget.  That is above and beyond (supplemental spending bills) the militaries budget that is being discussed, when you are talking about making cuts to the budget.

Offline fish

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2011, 12:46:55 AM »
so what? what price do you put on freedom mark? many "bases" are radar sites, minimal manning. many are joint use by other governments. Many are guard/reserve bases with smaller manning and limited use. Ronald Reagan proved what a strong military will do. He built it back up after carter gutted it . Reagan was a main reason russia's economy tanked. many unneeded bases were c;osed due to brac. but now the dew line is not watched as it used to be. yes somethings can be done better in the military. but a strong capable military is what we need to help keep us free.

Offline mark

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2011, 02:21:21 AM »
 I'm all for freedom! Not a big fan of big business using the military and tax dollars to get richer. We went into Iraq under the guise of eliminating wepons of mass destruction. We spent billions and lost 4500 good people. Wheres the WMD?
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
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Offline fish

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Offline Coyote

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2011, 01:22:48 PM »
He doesn't need a 2nd job.  He's single and wants to make alot of money while he can.  Basically his empty job will be filled by another government worker, he will be receiving full goverment retirement, plus taking a job from a civilian. 

Doesnt sound like he is going to be on unemployment or food stamps.  Most people i know that have retired make half the income they made while working.  So i would say your friend is doing damn well to make a dollar more than when he is working. and if he needs to find a job after retirement.  Then he must need that second job now as well.
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline fish

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2011, 06:24:50 PM »
it's his choice. he isn't taking anyone's job. did a civilian have to give up that job for him to get it?

Offline Coyote

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2011, 07:54:57 PM »
No.  And I don't have a problem with him having a second job.  I do have a problem with forced early retirements where they pay full pay for a retired guy and also full pay for the replacement.  They are basically paying two people for one job and saying this is a "cut."  Because in the big scheme of things, that isn't true.  It costs MORE money.

it's his choice. he isn't taking anyone's job. did a civilian have to give up that job for him to get it?
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline fish

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2011, 11:25:49 PM »
I share your confusion. I know some that got the 25K buyout to retire a few years ago. They were planning on retiring anyway and got a 25k bonus. I don't know if anything is gained through these programs.
I haven't seen how civil service retired pay exceeds active pay, unless you add in the tsp withdrawals. the standard formula for retirement results in a lot less than active pay. but there may be a different formula for fers as opposed to crs.

Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2011, 03:19:46 AM »
I took an early retirement, with buyout, back in 1997.  Believe me, they save a lot of money doing that.  My retirement pay is half of what it would have been if I had stayed in for another 10 years and the buyout was less than one years pay.
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!

Offline BigRedHouse

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2011, 01:51:03 PM »
I have a friend retiring this month.  GS-7 with 37 years federal service (he bought back his 3 years of active duty).  He is 56 years old.  His federal retirement pay will be $1.00 more than he is making at work now.  He has another job lined up.  So how does the country save by forced retirements?

they save money if they done back fill his job.  He would have retired anyway and got paid retierement pay as well as them paying a new guy/gal to do the job.   If they dont back fil the job and let a Soldier do it,(already drawing pay)   they just saved the cost of another GS 7 pay check.  They probably wont just cut people out...no one is going to show up and find a pink slip....but as people retire or quit...the positions just wont be refilled.

Offline fish

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Re: Pentagon Announces Huge Cut In Civilian Workforce
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2011, 11:34:42 PM »
that is how I understand the way the savings happens.