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Author Topic: Don`t disrespect Obama  (Read 12381 times)

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Offline missouriguy

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Don`t disrespect Obama
« on: April 26, 2012, 07:17:16 AM »

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SAN DIEGO (AP) — A sergeant will be discharged for criticizing President Barack Obama on Facebook in a case that called into question the Pentagon's policies about social media and its limits on the speech of active duty military personnel, the Marine Corps said Wednesday.
Sgt. Gary Stein will get an other-than-honorable discharge and lose most of his benefits for violating the policies, the Corps said.
The San Diego-area Marine who has served nine years in the Corps said he was disappointed by the decision. He argued that he was exercising his constitutional rights to free speech.
"I love the Marine Corps, I love my job. I wish it wouldn't have gone this way. I'm having a hard time seeing how 15 words on Facebook could have ruined my nine-year career," he told The Associated Press.
Live your life and I`ll live mine

Offline littlebit

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 11:32:47 AM »
People in our military need to keep in mind that you cannot say whatever you want about other people in their chain of command.
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous...


“The truth is, everyone is going to end up hurting you. You just have to find the ones who are worth suffering for.”

Offline fish

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 12:53:24 PM »
saying that he would not obey the orders of the potus got him canned. no different than saying he would not obey the orders of his boss where he worked. he knew better.

Offline mark

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 06:13:15 PM »
 Correct me if I'm wrong but, if your given an illegal order such as setting up a road block, or confiscating guns from the American people, herding your friends and family into FEMA camps, or acting in cohorts with the police. You can refuse such orders!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline Just_a_Biker

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 07:01:54 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but, if your given an illegal order such as setting up a road block, or confiscating guns from the American people, herding your friends and family into FEMA camps, or acting in cohorts with the police. You can refuse such orders!

Mark, you are showing your ignorance with regard to military personnel matters.  What this Marine did was wrong and he is being punished for it.  There is NO PLACE for politics when wearing a uniform.  This Marine knew that, chose to ignore that and now faces the consequences of HIS actions.  You are trying to compare apples to carrots.
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. Cicero - 55 BC, Rome

Offline Nanna

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 07:30:01 PM »
You are soooooooooooooooo correct
it is very clear that Mark has never been in the Military
 

Offline Coyote

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2012, 07:59:27 PM »
Unlawful orders are SOOOOO rare.  One time I was ordered to do something that I was not going to do.  There was a contagious individual (with a fatal disease) whose ride didn't show up to take him to the hospital when he was checking out to go to his orders home (where he would eventually pass away).  I'm an office manager and know nothing about medicine or his illness yet was ordered to drive him in my car to the hospital.  I told the 0-5 that I didn't want to take him in my car...my kids ride there and I don't know what could happen.  I asked can I use his car?  He said no and it was a direct order to take him in my car.  So I asked, "is this really a lawful order sir?"  He got quiet and turned beet red and I know he was hating me, but right then, the guy's ride showed up so I don't know how it would have turned out for me because I was not going to drive him.  We never mentioned it again.  So there are unlawful orders, but the things you mention are in sci fi movies.


Correct me if I'm wrong but, if your given an illegal order such as setting up a road block, or confiscating guns from the American people, herding your friends and family into FEMA camps, or acting in cohorts with the police. You can refuse such orders!
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline Nanna

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2012, 08:04:44 PM »
your question was excellent and that was not a lawful order.  Were you in the Military at this time?

Offline JCorn

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2012, 08:15:42 PM »
Does anyone know what the official charge to this Marine was?  I do not know of any any article in the Manual that covers this being that he was a Noncommissioned Officer.  The only one that I know of that could be applied would be Article 184 which is the catch all article but even that would be a stretch.  It is extremely clear that disloyal statements can only be directed towards the United States or against its form of government.  Stretching that out to include the POTUS is a unimaginable stretch.  Although I feel that this Marine made a serious error in judgement, I am not sure that it warranted a "less than honorable" discharge.  This case has politics written all over it and I believe that the USMC is making a public example out of him.  One of the reasons I have such doubts about this case is that there is no current policy that governs the use of social media in the Military.  There are security policies but that is a different matter.  I would give anything to see the actual transcripts of this case but I doubt that will ever be made public.
 
Kevin, you are a Military man with law experience, do you have any insight or thoughts?

Offline Coyote

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2012, 08:41:29 PM »
If this comment was for me, I was an E-7 at the time and my boss was an 0-5.  He was really a great guy and I liked working for him, but this situation was very tense.

your question was excellent and that was not a lawful order.  Were you in the Military at this time?
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline mark

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 08:59:25 PM »
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline Chas

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 09:03:13 PM »
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
People think that 1st amendment gives them right to say whatever they want, It doesn’t. The government can restrict where you gather in public for speeches, and depending on you who are talking about and why also determines whether or not is a free speech issues.  Not all speech is protected anyway.  If you are in the military you know you can’t bad mouth the president. If people would learn that social media is not a private conversation we would all be better off and there would be these problems. That is the sad part about all of this. People put out videos and their writing into public then act surprised when it comes back and bites them in the arse.

Offline Chas

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 09:06:04 PM »
I meant there would not be these problems.  Oh and say arse out loud it is just a fun word.

Offline JCorn

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2012, 09:08:03 PM »
Quote
If you are in the military you know you can’t bad mouth the president.

Chas,
   I am being totally serious when ask, where is this written down?

Offline Hi

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012, 09:16:05 PM »
Does it matter where its written.  The President is the commander in chief, the end all say all of the military, talking about him is just like talking to your direct superior officer.  The marine was an idiot to think he could say whatever he wanted about him without consequences.

Offline Coyote

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2012, 09:22:19 PM »
It's in the oath...written, repeated out loud, signed, sealed, and filed.  You do that in the beginning and at each reinlistment.  If this guy had 9 years in I'm sure he's said and signed the oath at least twice.


Chas,
   I am being totally serious when ask, where is this written down?
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline mark

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2012, 09:26:46 PM »
 Its also written that the president has to be a U.S. citizen, He has to actually win the election by the people, and he can't start wars and change or disregard the constitution without congressional approval!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline JCorn

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2012, 09:28:21 PM »
First off, I am not defending the guy, I am merely asking a question from a legal standpoint.  You cannot walk into a courtroom and look at the judge and say the guy didn't do the right thing.  I simply want to know what they charged him with because I cannot find any charge that applies in the Manual of Court Martials.  Making disparging remarks about the POTUS only applies to commissioned officers.  The oath of enlistment includes the statement that you will obey the orders of the POTUS and the officers appointed above you.  I say again, "what was the charge?"  I am being serious and not trying to start an arguement, I want to see if I am overlooking something that should be obvious as I am not a legal expert.

Offline ♥♣ ~Maynard~♣♥

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2012, 09:53:55 PM »
First off, I am not defending the guy, I am merely asking a question from a legal standpoint.  You cannot walk into a courtroom and look at the judge and say the guy didn't do the right thing.  I simply want to know what they charged him with because I cannot find any charge that applies in the Manual of Court Martials.  Making disparging remarks about the POTUS only applies to commissioned officers.  The oath of enlistment includes the statement that you will obey the orders of the POTUS and the officers appointed above you.  I say again, "what was the charge?"  I am being serious and not trying to start an arguement, I want to see if I am overlooking something that should be obvious as I am not a legal expert.
He was charged with *STUPID*
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Offline missouriguy

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2012, 10:33:56 PM »
Hey Nanna, I thought that Mark guy was retired military? He represented he was at one time while starting a bunch of troubl. His other buddy also representesd himself as reetired military? Im starting to think he misrepresented himself. I for one have never been in due to a heart murmer discover during a physical. I dont know why the guy harrasses everyone and rants and raves like a mental patient. I think he needs meds. I leave him alone till he starts accuusing me of lieing about a score I MADE and he keeps calling me someone Im not. Wow. Unbelievable.  Fema camps and aliens and he dont even know the laws OR government.
Live your life and I`ll live mine

Offline mark

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2012, 10:42:55 PM »
Hey Nanna, I thought that Mark guy was retired military? He represented he was at one time while starting a bunch of troubl. His other buddy also representesd himself as reetired military? Im starting to think he misrepresented himself. I for one have never been in due to a heart murmer discover during a physical. I dont know why the guy harrasses everyone and rants and raves like a mental patient. I think he needs meds. I leave him alone till he starts accuusing me of lieing about a score I MADE and he keeps calling me someone Im not. Wow. Unbelievable.  Fema camps and aliens and he dont even know the laws OR government.
I have never represented myself as a military guy Bob. You got kicked out for smoking dope! Tell the truth for once in your life!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline missouriguy

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2012, 10:45:32 PM »
Bob LOL keep thinking that. Its almost funny.
And yes you did say you were retired military. Your ignorance shows youre a liar
Live your life and I`ll live mine

Offline fish

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2012, 11:38:36 PM »
conduct unbecoming an nco. disrespectm insubordination. for the barracks lawyers; articles 88, 91,92,134

what if he said those comments about his commander? no difference. nobama is the cinc and the marine knew better

Offline mark

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2012, 11:58:13 AM »
 This is the guy your supposed to blindly follow??? 

President Barack Hussein Obama has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good, when he murdered Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen, without ever having charged him with a crime in a court of law, thereby nullifying the 5th Amendment which states that "NO PERSON shall be deprived of Life, Liberty, or Property without Due Process of Law." ACLU: Obama Now "Judge, Jury, and Executioner"

President Barack Hussein Obama has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them, by refusing to identify and deport illegal aliens, and then denying the Sovereign State of Arizona the right to defend its own borders. Arizona Law SB 1070

In collusion with Treasonous Members of Congress, President Barack Hussein Obama has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

President Barack Hussein Obama has attacked elected representatives repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people. DOJ Retaliates Against Sheriff Joe Arpaio

President Barack Hussein Obama has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers. "Recess Appointments" Unconstitutional.

President Barack Hussein Obama is trying to make the SCOTUS dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and their relevance. Obama Takes Aim At Supreme Court

President Barack Hussein Obama has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. TSA's mission creep is making the US a police state

President Barack Hussein Obama is forming among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies of Private Mercenaries without the Consent of our legislatures.

President Barack Hussein Obama has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing or ignoring the free System of American Laws, establishing therein an Arbitrary government by Executive Order, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Individual Sovereign States:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments, and ceding authority to offices funded by, and presumably accountable to, the Federal Reserve.

For bypassing our own Legislatures, and declaring himself invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever, including our very right to Life, President Barack Hussein Obama has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against Us.

President Barack Hussein Obama has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

President Barack Hussein Obama is at this time forming large Armies of Mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

President Barack Hussein Obama has excited domestic unrest amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, and the Sovereign States of the Middle East, the merciless Savages of the Muslim Brotherhood and their military wing known as al-Qaeda, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions. He has also quashed all attempts at Justice aimed at a violent Black Nationalist organization known as the New Black Panthers who have intimidated voters at polling places, called for the Murders of white citizens, and have issued "Dead or Alive" rewards, felonies ignored by the Department of Justice at the behest of the President.

President Barack Hussein Obama has provided Material Support to the Enemies of the United States, namely the Terror organizations known as al-Qaeda and Hamas. These groups are designated as terrorist organizations by the U.S. State Department and any Material Support of them is a Felony for which others have been imprisoned.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline fish

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2012, 04:02:34 PM »
another ill informed worthless cut and paste, and one that has nothing to do with the topic

Offline mark

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2012, 04:40:58 PM »
another ill informed worthless cut and paste, and one that has nothing to do with the topic
You used to be smart Fish. What happend? Your not on the crack are you?
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline Auctioneer Ed

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2012, 04:55:29 PM »
Title 10 U.S. Code, Sec 502 defines the Oath of Enlistment:    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

(For those choosing to "affirm", "So help me God." may be omitted.

Offline missouriguy

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2012, 06:41:24 PM »
Fish, That Mark guy is truly mental. Talking about drugs now anad basically calling you dumb. LOL His posts make no sense at all. IF I was going to outer space Id appreciate his input cause he seems to know alot about aliens and getting probed..
Live your life and I`ll live mine

Offline mark

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2012, 07:04:06 PM »
Fish, That Mark guy is truly mental. Talking about drugs now anad basically calling you dumb. LOL His posts make no sense at all. IF I was going to outer space Id appreciate his input cause he seems to know alot about aliens and getting probed..
I think you have to make it past the third grade before my posts will make sense to you!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline BigRedHouse

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Re: Don`t disrespect Obama
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2012, 07:07:13 PM »
conduct unbecoming an nco. disrespectm insubordination. for the barracks lawyers; articles 88, 91,92,134

what if he said those comments about his commander? no difference. nobama is the cinc and the marine knew better

UCMJ provision ; Article 88,  makes it a crime for an officer to use contemptuous words against the president, the vice president, Congress, the secretary of defense, the secretary of a military department, the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, or the governor or legislature of any state, territory, commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present

It does not state weather it is a commissioned or non- commissioned officer, just "officer"   so they can get him for that.

if he was a Private...he could plead ignorance....