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Author Topic: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)  (Read 4664 times)

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Offline David Day

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From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« on: October 27, 2012, 09:45:31 AM »

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Offline berto45

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2012, 01:40:41 PM »
I will vote YES to Prop. B.

You failed to mention that carrying cigarettes or tobacco products across state lines is a misdemeanor and in some states a felony depending on the amount, of course MO doesn't care, nor those that sell tobacco.
I hope the increase will deter some people from smoking, I wish some of the money would go to research and to cover medical expenses for tobacco related illnesses.

Offline David Day

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2012, 01:59:18 PM »
Like I said in the article, I respect all sides of the issue.

You are correct, not a penny is going to any medical care related to smoking, however the argument is always what smokers cost society.  BTW, being overweight cost society much more than smoking.  I have no doubt taxes will be associated with that at some point if some think they can get it passed.

As far as it being illegal to take tobacco products across state lines in quanity, that is true of some states.  I honestly don't know if that is in this Prop or not, but don't believe it is.  If not it will be up to the legislature to pass a law dealing with that if they want.  That said, it isn't enforceable for the most part.  What cities or counties have enough law enforcement to focus on that, it sure won't be the cities and counties on our state lines where it will be happening, they are the ones that will lose more revenue than any other part of the state.  All of those sales impact their local budgets, those sales will be gone.

I always appreciate opinions, take care.

Dave
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Offline tpgunbiz

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2012, 06:08:02 AM »
 I dont Agree with Prop B unless the money goes to healthcare. Education is well funded by lotto and grants already. Some Cash need to go towards healthcare.....And if they decided to put it to healthcare....I would have no problem with taxes on Soda and bad foods.
Biscuit

Offline Fafrd

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2012, 02:33:39 PM »
I will vote YES to Prop. B.

You failed to mention that carrying cigarettes or tobacco products across state lines is a misdemeanor and in some states a felony depending on the amount, of course MO doesn't care, nor those that sell tobacco.
I hope the increase will deter some people from smoking, I wish some of the money would go to research and to cover medical expenses for tobacco related illnesses.

Why should any of the money go to cover people medical expenses because they decided to start smoking, thats bs.  Other states have rasised taxes on cigerettes and it has little effect on people to stop smoking.

Im voting no for the simple fact that they are saying money is going to educatiion.  Im getting tired of more and more money being sent to education and education keeps getting worse.

Offline Racer

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2012, 04:02:49 AM »
Why should any of the money go to cover people medical expenses because they decided to start smoking, thats bs.  Other states have rasised taxes on cigerettes and it has little effect on people to stop smoking.

Im voting no for the simple fact that they are saying money is going to educatiion.  Im getting tired of more and more money being sent to education and education keeps getting worse.

Great, let's not educate our kids.  Let em be uneducated and continue to live at home playing xbox.
 

Offline tpgunbiz

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2012, 07:26:59 AM »
Millions are spent already on education......and yeah its getting worse.More is spent now than ever on education. theres no account for quality. If teachers or educators were rated by their performance then things would be different. Yeah people have the option to smoke.....but its legal and highly addictive. It took me 2 sets of quitting to quit.once after 17 years and the second after 6 months.  When I started smoking ...Joe camel was offering shirts and jackets as prizes for collecting camel bucks. I ate into it. Smoked like a freight train. Id like to have all that money back for health care....if not for me for my kids.....I was un educated and stupid ....sure.....But the marketing of cigarettes drew me in. and very young.....I was 13 when I started smoking regular.......9 when I started......Quit in my middle 30s and quit again after I dumb assedly started again.Id like to see an incentive rather to quit and be able to get health care by doing so then spend more cash on education funded by another addiction already..
Biscuit

Offline Fafrd

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2012, 11:25:48 AM »

Great, let's not educate our kids.  Let em be uneducated and continue to live at home playing xbox.
 

Racer i have no problem with our kids being educated, im all for that.  What im not all for, this trick of adding a tax, for the education of our children.  Look at all the money that is supposed to be going to the education for children from the lottery. That sure hasnt helped any. 

Somebody wants to tax something, so they use words to affect the voters.. keywords for that are for the children, keep police and fire fighters on the job.  Funny thing is if those things dont pass, not one of the things they say will happen happen

Offline mandie_81z

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2012, 01:17:31 PM »
It isn't going to deter my husband from smoking and he wants to quit and talks about quitting but has had no luck... so we will just be paying even more for cigarettes. 

Offline Just_a_Biker

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2012, 01:22:00 PM »
Prop B is a farce.  Those who will vote YES just because they don't smoke, are ignorant.  Raising taxes does NOT deter smoking; smokers will smoke no matter how high you take taxes.  They will pinch pennies & cut corners to scrape up the money to smoke.  And, in their corner cutting & penny pinching they will do without other goods & services.  So, a YES vote on Prop B essentially means you're taking money out of the pizza delivery guy's pocket, out of restaurants so more waiters & waitresses will be out of jobs.  You're taking money away from the cable & satellite TV companies.  Gone is the expensive cell phone & associated plan.  Less driving = less spent on gas / insurance premiums.

Still don't think Prop B affects you?  Where do you think these losses are going to be made up?  Do you think Corporate America (OK, Corporate Missouri) is going to say "Oh, the smokers are cutting corners, good for them!! I'll just accept this loss in profit & move on because it's a good thing."  lol 

A Yes vote on Prob B means an INCREASE in all goods & services that EVERYONE utilizes.  It will mean higher unemployment rates due to lost jobs.  It will also be an open door for future tax increases.  Maybe those tax increases won't affect you either, so all will be good... Just wait, I promise it WILL affect YOU before you realize it.
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. Cicero - 55 BC, Rome

Offline berto45

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2012, 02:08:23 PM »
I must respectfully disagree, the same argument you are making was made in Springfield by those opposed to the ban on smoking in public places. I am still waiting to hear of one establishment in Springfield that closes because of the ban. Missouri has the lowest tax rate on tabacco (17%) in the country and the second highest rate of smokers (26%). Is that a coincidence? The only ones that benefit from a NO to Prop B is the Big Tabacco companies.

Offline Chas

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2012, 02:27:40 PM »
I will vote no.  It will not give additional money to schools and if it did they would just bigger sport complexes instead of buying books and Iím getting a little tired of politicians playing morality police (not all of them) I do not like bans in cities and towns if you own a business and you want to allow smoking which is a legal product then you should be able to. The same as not allowing people to smoke if you donít want them to smoke in your business.  I think that raising prices does cause a few people to quit smoking but not many.

Offline David Day

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2012, 05:04:27 PM »
Just to address something that was said, about the only ones that benifit from a No vote is Big Tobacco Companies.  That could not be more incorrect, as a matter of fact the biggest tobacco companies are not putting money in the Anti-Prop B effort, they are sitting it out.  Why?  Simple, the tax is on the consumer, not on them...so it costs them nothing at all.  As I said in the article, tax increases have proven to have little to no impact on the number of smokers, the latest research being done in New York where they have some of the highest taxes on tobacco in the nation.

Who will suffer are the retailers on Missouri's boarders.  Ones in places like St. Louis, K.C., West Plains, Joplin, Sikeston, and others   Again, as I said in the article, Missouri residents will leave our boarder cities to buy their goods in other states where it will be much cheaper.  Currently Missouri and those communities get the revenue from citizens in other states coming here, that will be lost.

So to say "Big Tobacco" are the loosers in this Prop is totally incorrect.  They couldn't care less, which is why they are not fighting it.  The ones that in the fight are the smaller, often independent convience store owners who make up various groups, because they know it will kill business in our boarder cities.

Dave
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Offline berto45

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2012, 05:57:30 PM »
The only reason they are sitting this one out is because Prop B will eliminate the tax advantage that small/value off-brand cigarettes have over big companies like Phillip Morris, therefore given them a plain level field to compete. The last two times the tax hike was proposed they spent millions of dollars to defeat it.

Offline David Day

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2012, 06:17:27 PM »
That is partially true (or I should say part of the reason), which is another reason I didn't understand your comment that they were the winners if it failed.

The other reason is as I said, it costs them nothing.  They sell tobacco in all 50 states, they don't care what state someone buys it in, Missourians should in my opinion.  This will hurt the city and county budgets big time of all areas on our boarder.

Like I said, I respect all sides of the argument, but what I said in the article is factual.  There is no guarantee education will see additional funding, along with the other points.  I know of four fairly powerful members of the House and Senate that already have plans for the money, things like mass transit projects in St. Louis, some highway projects in specific areas (no, not ours), things like that.

Again, I do respect all sides.

Dave
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Offline edward

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2012, 01:15:17 AM »
I will vote yes on this

Offline fish

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2012, 01:18:42 AM »
cigarettes are a legal substance that are(should be) an adult choice. Good parenting can reduce kids from starting up smoking. If a person wants to quit they can if they want to. I quit cold turkey 27 years ago. we didn't have all the stuff on the market to quit smoking that there is now. If people want to smoke they have that choice. with all the talk about raising taxes on cigarettes, next the gov't will say it's patriotic to smoke! Dave's right, raising taxes on cigarettes will only hurt the wrong people, the smokers will still smoke.

Offline 2CardJohnE

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2012, 01:38:35 AM »
cigarettes are a legal substance that are(should be) an adult choice. Good parenting can reduce kids from starting up smoking. If a person wants to quit they can if they want to. I quit cold turkey 27 years ago. we didn't have all the stuff on the market to quit smoking that there is now. If people want to smoke they have that choice. with all the talk about raising taxes on cigarettes, next the gov't will say it's patriotic to smoke! Dave's right, raising taxes on cigarettes will only hurt the wrong people, the smokers will still smoke.
   I agree %100 with fish...I think there might be a lil blue flowing thru those veins yet  fish  :th_thicon_super:  ...i am voting no for the fact i dont think a sin tax is something anyone should have to deal with.   Beer and Tobacco should not be picked on like they have been.   I think they need to at least start picking on champange, cavier and cuban cigars to even things out ....until that time screw em
John Wayne said it best, "I may not have voted for him, but he is MY President

Offline Just_a_Biker

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2012, 12:37:41 PM »
Just a tax increase suckers..

You are correct.  Nothing more than crooked politics.

I will vote yes on this

Not a surprise, considering your political views...

...  I think they need to at least start picking on champange, cavier and cuban cigars to even things out ....until that time screw em

Nail, meet head.
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. Cicero - 55 BC, Rome

Offline Hi

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2012, 04:34:31 PM »
But But Its for the kids! Just like they said it was with the gambling!                 ( its sarcasm )

Offline 3.14159

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2012, 05:37:08 PM »
Quote
   I agree %100 with fish...I think there might be a lil blue flowing thru those veins yet  fish  :th_thicon_super:  ...i am voting no for the fact i dont think a sin tax is something anyone should have to deal with.   Beer and Tobacco should not be picked on like they have been.   I think they need to at least start picking on champange, cavier and cuban cigars to even things out ....until that time screw em

Really Hmm?
 
 Missouri Rep. Chris Kelly, a Columbia Democrat who sponsored the measure
 
Kelly, who served in the Legislature in the 1980s and '90s before leaving to become a judge, only to come back to the House four years ago, thinks Leone is just blowing smoke.
"This, according to opponents, is a socialist, job-killing proposal," he said. "When Woody Guthrie drove over the Oklahoma line, the last socialist left that state. With their ($1.03) tax, they have done just fine. We would also still be lower than Arkansas, Illinois and Iowa. This is mythology

Offline Just_a_Biker

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2012, 06:22:11 PM »

... We would also still be lower than Arkansas, Illinois and Iowa. ...

And if this passes, it will be the last time I buy any tobacco in MO... I don't have a lot of choice in some taxes, but this is one that I do.  I would rather support another State's economy than to give another dime to those who choose to pull the wool over the eyes of those who elected them to office. 
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. Cicero - 55 BC, Rome

Offline berto45

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2012, 01:41:46 PM »
Your savings on buying tobacco in another state may be offset by the cost of gas to get there :)

Offline Just_a_Biker

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Re: From the House... (Prop B, Is It All They Promise?)
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2012, 05:04:35 PM »
Your savings on buying tobacco in another state may be offset by the cost of gas to get there :)

I do enough traveling it won't affect me.  I buy tobacco in MO because we have good prices, if those good prices go away I'll buy where they are the cheapest; and I'll continue to support mom & pop smoke shops. 

I'm convinced if we became a little LESS civilized politicians would be speaking for the People once again... Tell a lie, get your jaw broke.  JC would be pretty quiet for a while, but I think in 6-8 weeks you'd see a BIG swing in favor of the People!
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. Cicero - 55 BC, Rome