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Author Topic: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment  (Read 8470 times)

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Offline Chas

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2013, 07:24:04 PM »

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Offline matrsnot

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2013, 09:33:17 PM »
Perhaps someone besides me should go and investigate just what that militia was that the forefathers referred to.  and do it with the definitions of the day, not what you interpret it to be in this day and age.  They ARE different.  I would defy anyone on this board to deny me any gun I so choose to own.  None of you have that authority.  IF I were to go after a full auto, that would be different as the CLEO has to actually give permission in addition to paying the $200 tax to the ATF and wait for 6 months. I do not so choose.  So, in agreement with $Bill, watch where you step.

Offline Chas

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2013, 09:49:32 PM »
Nobody said they had the authority. I said the SCOTUS has the authority and they have said that YOU and everyone else can NOT own certain weapons to include certain guns. Can you legally own a sawed off shotgun. No you can not.

Offline DollarBill

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2013, 12:08:21 AM »
Okay the well regulated militia is what at the time served as an army.  It was necessary to a free state.  No United States Army was in force at the time..  It was all militia.  The right of the people was to make sure that the well regulated militia stayed well regulated by keeping arms to make sure no tyrant could use the well regulated militia to overthrow the people.

Do a little research.  As for me being a part of the Mo. militia.  Who says I'm not?  Who says one won't be formed to deal with a tyrannical government out of control seeking to control the people?

Did you ever wonder why the language seems so weird?  Do a little research about the constitution and why things are the way they are.  The people's weapons are for defense against those who would strip us of all freedom and liberty against our will.  When we go shoot and have competitions and all sorts of shooting sports it simply militia weapons drill..

I love to drill.

Oh and you can own a sawed off shotgun by registering it with the ATF as a .72 caliber pistol, and paying the extra $200 tax.  Just like MN stated.  The thing is it has to be registered.  Same thing if you own a fully automatic weapon.  They have a big shoot every year with fully automatic weapons down south.  All of the weapons are legal and ATF knows who's gottem.  No private sales with these bad boys.  Mondo jail time there.

In the 20's before the first gun control act, if you could afford it, you could own, legally, any weapon you wanted; fully automatic including any and all machine guns.  Wanna know how many school shootings there were?  ZERO.

Its not a gun thing.  Its a problem with society.  People before WW II would have never thought of doing such a thing.  Probably because they knew the penalty would be swift, and deadly.  Like a public hanging about three-four days after you were caught.  Not some mental institution, just dead.  No excuses, just punishment.  Is it perfect.  No way.  But you have to admit, it sure would be a deterrent.  Or maybe not.. Its too hard to say anymore.

and take yer neeners and stickem..  Watch where you step.

 
Out here
$Bill
I was alright . . .   I got over it.   
It takes 43 muscles to frown; 17 to Smile.
But Only 3 for a proper trigger squeeze....

Offline RG

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2013, 12:20:58 AM »
After reading arguments on both sides.  Here's my 2 cents.  First of all, I've never committed a crime that would cause me to not be able to own a firearm.  Unlike a few in here, I actually have a security clearance.  Now, that being said, I support the 2nd Amendment as it stands.  If called upon, I would support the Constitution of the United States.  I've kept my nose clean and will not be told by a few supporters of the left agenda that I can't own what I want.  Not what I need, what I want.  I've paid my price by staying out of trouble.  Now, I find it interesting that JB has the same sentiment about that.  Every law enforcement officer I've contacted personally feels the same way.  What needs to be done is quit letting the criminals out of jail.  You rob a business and kill someone.  You get front row to the needle seat.  Everyone gets a chance to amend their ways.  But you are the same ones that would let Charles Manson out?  He's been nothing but a financial drain on society all his life.  That's where you need to act.  Leave the law abiding citizens the Hell alone.  I don't bother you, you sure as Hell shouldn't be bothering me and mine.  Now, if you want to dig in mine, feel free.  But bet your ass I am gonna be diggin in your business too.  It works like that.  We are a Constitutional Republic.  You mind your own business, and I'll mind mine.  And if someone is robbing you, or murdering your family, let me know in advance and I will be sure to NOT use my firearm to help you.  I wouldn't want to insult you in any way.  Otherwise, I would put myself in jeopardy to save another.  That's what having the responsibility is all about.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2013, 12:21:52 AM »
The 1934 ruling stated the sawed off shotgun had no military use.  Of course, there was only one side heard.

Offline fish

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2013, 02:00:33 AM »
I have the guns I want. I choose to not have an automatic weapon. ever see the fire power that shows up annually at knob creek, kentucky?
http://www.knobcreekshoot.com/

felons are restricted, as they should be. law abiding should not be.
 
don't go down the stupid road and mention tanks, fighter planes and missiles. The arena we are discussing are  firearms used for personal defense, hunting, target shooting.

requiring gun owners to have insurance is infringing, limiting magazine capacity is infringing, defining which specific firearm a law abiding citizen can posses is infringing.

Offline DollarBill

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2013, 02:09:58 AM »
I'd like to go to Knob Creek and mine the berms.  Got to be a dump truck or two worth of lead after just one shoot.    The night fire session is something to behold.

I remember seeing in one of the gun mags about a guy making a pistol from a 12Ga all legal and it fit in a holster.  Used it for killin copperheads.  Seems he had an infestation.  I dunno which one of the magazines had the article.  Might get it to turn up on a search.

Seems there are more of us that are on the same page than others 1st thought.  Oh well tried to tellem...

OOOOOHHHHH don't go stompin round the rattlers
Might get bit or torn to tatters.
SSSOOOOOO don't go stompin round the rattlers...

Sorry got carried away there..
Bye
Love and Kisses
$Bill
I was alright . . .   I got over it.   
It takes 43 muscles to frown; 17 to Smile.
But Only 3 for a proper trigger squeeze....

Offline 2CardJohnE

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2013, 03:53:42 AM »
Iím amazed at the number of smart people on here that think the 2nd amendment gives you the right to own whatever you want. SCOTUS has ruled several times that you cannot. Yes they ruled in favor of guns as well. But like they stated in the Heller case- Justice Antonin Scalia, states: "Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited..." It is "... not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose."
Also the Heller ruling does not stop DC or other cities from banning certain types of handguns, nor did repeal other forms of gun control. It only applies to having a gun in your home you still cannot carry openly or concealed.
ďAs far as what anyone needs is not up to anyone else to determineĒ.  While it should be true it isnít. The PC example is a bad one. Your old PC doesnít work because it is outdated and not compatible with today technology had technology not changed then you would be correct.  But I get what youíre saying you donít need a car that goes a 200mph but you want one.
There a lot things that people would like to do or own some have even been legal in the past and no longer are.  There are several laws that others have determined you donít need that.
So regardless of what anyone on here thinks myself included there have been restrictions placed on the 2nd amendment and the 9th amendment doesnít stop it.   ďDeal with it or go awayĒ
Oh and you still donít a 30 round magazine.  Nener nener
of course they also dont want to hear about how the 2nd was designed to keep slavery rebellions and uprisings from getting out of control and preserve the slave patrol militia's.  the 1st draft said "country " instead of state but was changed to state by madison because of the slave issue http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery   
John Wayne said it best, "I may not have voted for him, but he is MY President

Offline 2CardJohnE

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2013, 03:57:11 AM »
Perhaps someone besides me should go and investigate just what that militia was that the forefathers referred to.  and do it with the definitions of the day, not what you interpret it to be in this day and age.  They ARE different.  I would defy anyone on this board to deny me any gun I so choose to own.  None of you have that authority.  IF I were to go after a full auto, that would be different as the CLEO has to actually give permission in addition to paying the $200 tax to the ATF and wait for 6 months. I do not so choose.  So, in agreement with $Bill, watch where you step.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery   your militia's were the ones to keep slavery uprisings from happening
John Wayne said it best, "I may not have voted for him, but he is MY President

Offline matrsnot

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2013, 01:26:29 PM »
Look for the DEFINITION.  I am fully aware of what you are posting.  There is much more to it than the slave issue.  Incidentally, were you all aware the roots of gun control is a slave issue?  Might want to look at the old permit to acquire here in Missouri.  And yes it was all started by democrats.  Perish the thought.  Might also want to read the Missouri State Constitution.  The right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE QUESTIONED.

Offline 2CardJohnE

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2013, 02:42:40 PM »
Look for the DEFINITION.  I am fully aware of what you are posting.  There is much more to it than the slave issue.  Incidentally, were you all aware the roots of gun control is a slave issue?  Might want to look at the old permit to acquire here in Missouri.  And yes it was all started by democrats.  Perish the thought.  Might also want to read the Missouri State Constitution.  The right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE QUESTIONED.
  Sure there is more, but i am sure you dont want to hear it either because it does not fit your agenda concerning this issue...but here it is anyways   If you read the article i posted it should the 1st draft said  "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country [emphasis mine]: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person."   

anyone with a brain would understand that the whole idea is to keep and bear arms is to protect your country from invaders. but the pro-gun advocates claim its to protect you from your own government
John Wayne said it best, "I may not have voted for him, but he is MY President

Offline Chas

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2013, 03:07:26 PM »
Nener nener Lighten up Francis

Offline matrsnot

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2013, 04:08:18 PM »
It is BOTH.  How about that?  I can read and comprehend.  Can you?  As has already been said before.  Come and take it......if you can  The left will never understand until it is WAY too late to do anything anyway.  And the snake is rattling.

Offline 2CardJohnE

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2013, 04:54:47 PM »
It is BOTH.  How about that?  I can read and comprehend.  Can you?  As has already been said before.  Come and take it......if you can  The left will never understand until it is WAY too late to do anything anyway.  And the snake is rattling.
  Paranoia will destroy ya
John Wayne said it best, "I may not have voted for him, but he is MY President

Offline Chas

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2013, 05:26:36 PM »
Things we should be able to agree on that are not open to interruption.
The SCOTUS has ruled that second amendment protects an individualís right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia. Columbia v. Heller they also cited the 14th amendment. So it really no longer matters what defines a militia.
They stuck down laws on owning and having a handgun in your own home. DC and Chicago bans no longer apply.
From Heller- 2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Courtís opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller's holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those "in common use at the time" finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54Ė56. [147][148]
Even with the Heller ruling you cannot carry open or concealed in DC.
In Robertson v. Baldwin, 165 U.S. 275 (1897), the Court stated that laws regulating concealed arms did not infringe upon the right to keep and bear arms and thus were not a violation of the Second Amendment:
The governments (FED, State and local) can and have placed restrictions on what you can own. Either out right you canít own a rocket launcher or by requiring licensing /registration, a tax, a back ground check.
These are facts not my opinion except for it no longer matters what defines a militia. My opinion is since they ruled on individuals owning guns that militia part for our purposes on here  doesnít matter.
These are my opinions.
No matter what any of us think we do not overrule a SCOTUS decision. We may disagree with it but it doesnít matter.  They are the ones who determine what is Constitutional.
Assault rifles on the open market are just semi auto rifles it shouldnít matter that they look scary.
There will not be a weapons ban but they will get the large magazines. This will allow both parties to say look at us and what we accomplished without really accomplishing anything.
I want is not a good enough argument people want a lot of things that are illegal or immoral.
Nobody needs a 30 round magazine.
Some people on here take other people opinions way to serious. Threating people over the internet is stupid. This is supposed to be a place where people can post their ideas and opinions.
I really like using nener nener.

Offline fish

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2013, 05:47:55 PM »
 A lot of what we already know chas.

But it's not up to you to decide what a person needs.

Offline Chas

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2013, 06:38:37 PM »
Where did I ever say it was up to me to decide? I know it is not up to me. I have stated over and over it is my opinion just as your opinion is I want or need a 30 magazine.  Now if this is stuff people already know then why all the comments I can own whatever I want, nobody gets to tell me what I can and canít own?  When it is proven that you canít and they can and they have.  Someone (not me) is going to decide whether you need it or not.  If it upheld by SCOTUS as constitutional then there is nothing you can do about it short of amending the Constitution or civil war. I will also quit saying- it is my opinion that no one needs a 30 magazine, since a lot people seem to have a problem with it and donít get it is an opinion and apparently some opinions scare them.
Oh and nener nener, dang, Iím really liking that.

Offline fish

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2013, 09:34:54 PM »
because opinions become policy. that is why the gun issue is a hotbed issue. feinstein, bloomberg have security, . nobama has armed security for life.  But we aren't supposed to defend ourselves or family
I have the guns I wanted, not the ones I am allowed. wonder if I could get one of these! Don't need it but it would be a hoot to shoot! Hey that rymes!

Offline Chas

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2013, 10:59:59 PM »
Ok, I can buy that opinions become policy. Someoneís opinion may influence how a congressperson would vote. Isnít that the way it supposed to work?  You call or write your Reps. and voice your opinion on something and hope that they feel the same way and if they donít, that enough people can persuade them to vote in favor of what the majority of their constituents want.  Every person is entitled to an opinion whether you agree with or not. When it comes to laws and policies it is up to someone to decide what those will be. Now if they decide that 30 round mags are ok Iím not going to get mad or threaten war or anyone else over it. I get why people want them I also get why they want to ban them.  I also donít see where anything has been written that you cannot protect yourself or family.  I see a lot of assumptions about what certain things mean but no actually data. People can ass/u/me, that because that it is how they have done it other countries that is how it will work here. 
At some point a person has to say that SCOTUS has said that we have the right to own guns but they can place restrictions on those rights and that they are not going take our guns.
Did you notice I didnít say nener nener

Offline fish

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2013, 01:17:43 AM »
the data will be available if the anti gunners get their way. what does feinstien want? total ban. what happened in ny when cuomo quickly signed an anti gun bill? if their was a ban and people would no longer be able to protect themselves, the data would reflect what is being said now. the criminals would have guns the law abiding would not. if some refused to turn in their guns they would be considered a criminal, though they are not attacking anyone. you don't need to have anything in writing to know the result. there is nothing wrong with opinions, except when they are used in the context that person knows better than you what you need and what is good for you.

Offline Chas

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2013, 05:16:11 PM »
Until an opinion becomes policy or law they are just opinions. Opinions are how laws are created. From changing the DUI laws by lower the Alcohol content, check points, or new laws, etc.  Someone in their opinion decide these were good things to do regardless of how they affect people. That they know better than you what you need and what is good for you. As a Republic along with the US Constitution we have decided that those people are our elected officials. You as an individual donít get to decide except as it is laid by law or policy.  Now folks can get all blustering and declare that nobody tells me what to do or what I can have. Those people are wrong.  You can decide that you are not going to listen but that is not the same thing as be able to own what you want or do what you want. If they ever did a total ban on guns I would become a criminal. I just donít see it happening, I could see a partial ban happening depending on congress but not until Obama is out office or the GOP loses a lot of seats in the next election. Again I think what is going to cost us are incidents like the last couple of shootings at courthouses.  These were not done by people that were considered crazy, just mad.  A couple of bad apples spoil the barrel.
This is what I think will happen (and if my opinion causes you stress, oh well)
No gun ban, limited capacity magazines and back ground checks for all gun purchases, dealer and private.  Gun registration would hopefully stay the way it, but I would not be surprised to see a total registration.

Offline fish

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2013, 06:38:58 PM »
Missouri Democrats Introduce Legislation to Confiscate Firearms(90 Days to Turn in Weapons)
 The Gateway Pundit ^ | February 14, 2013 | Jim Hoft



Missouri Democrats introduced an anti-gun bill which would turn law-abiding firearm owners into criminals. They will have 90 days to turn in their guns if the legislation is passed.

Dana Loesch Radio reported on the new legislation being pushed by Missouri Democrats:

Any person who, prior to the effective date of this law, was legally in possession of an assault weapon or large capacity magazine shall have ninety days from such effective date to do any of the following without being subject to prosecution.

Hereís part of the Democratic proposal in Missouri:

4. Any person who, prior to the effective date of this law, was legally in possession of an assault weapon or large capacity magazine shall have ninety days from such effective date to do any of the following without being subject to prosecution:

(1) Remove the assault weapon or large capacity magazine from the state of Missouri;

(2) Render the assault weapon permanently inoperable; or

(3) Surrender the assault weapon or large capacity magazine to the appropriate law enforcement agency for destruction, subject to specific agency regulations.

5. Unlawful manufacture, import, possession, purchase, sale, or transfer of an assault weapon or a large capacity magazine is a class C felony.

Offline Chas

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2013, 08:58:14 PM »
This bill was INTRODUCED BY REPRESENTATIVES ELLINGER (Sponsor), SCHUPP, MCNEIL AND WALTON GRAY (Co-sponsors). 
MFing Morons. It is this type of knee jerk reactions that are done by the states that also causes us problems, whether it is for or against something. In the case of gun control states shouldnít be making any laws until it is settled at the national level. The 2nd amendment is a national issue not a state issue until is ruled on.  I hope everyone of these morons get voted out and they may very well be.
I was wrong; I didnít realize the extent of idiots in the Missouri house.  It will be these types of things that harm any chance of some type of meaningfully gun reform. Such as background checks. I cannot back this or anyone that thinks this is a good idea.  When they get this specific and at the same time non-specific, I see more than one thing that is very vague. I have no choice but to be on the side that would be against this bill.  I would of anyway because it is going after semi- automatics, and they are not grandfathering in guns but an outright ban. DumbA$$s.

Offline 2CardJohnE

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2013, 12:45:17 AM »
This bill was INTRODUCED BY REPRESENTATIVES ELLINGER (Sponsor), SCHUPP, MCNEIL AND WALTON GRAY (Co-sponsors). 
MFing Morons. It is this type of knee jerk reactions that are done by the states that also causes us problems, whether it is for or against something. In the case of gun control states shouldnít be making any laws until it is settled at the national level. The 2nd amendment is a national issue not a state issue until is ruled on.  I hope everyone of these morons get voted out and they may very well be.
I was wrong; I didnít realize the extent of idiots in the Missouri house.  It will be these types of things that harm any chance of some type of meaningfully gun reform. Such as background checks. I cannot back this or anyone that thinks this is a good idea.  When they get this specific and at the same time non-specific, I see more than one thing that is very vague. I have no choice but to be on the side that would be against this bill.  I would of anyway because it is going after semi- automatics, and they are not grandfathering in guns but an outright ban. DumbA$$s.
Major DumbA$$s    wait and see how many keep a seat next election
John Wayne said it best, "I may not have voted for him, but he is MY President

Offline tpgunbiz

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2013, 09:02:38 AM »
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

If you are part of a milita keep as many guns as you want. Otherwise...

We are a militia, well regulated, we are Americans. Any American standing up for his or her rights belong to the biggest millitia. Amricans for America. So either support your country...or go away. If you cant support American rights.....go live elsewhere....see how they do.I for one love this country and am happy to defend my neighbors with what little firepower I have against the drug dealers ,Child molesters , and probable tyrants against my homeland. If you and I were holed up fighting a foriegn enemy, what would you have to offer?Me? Id have something I could fight back with. you? would you be able to help me secure your neighborhood? If you didnt Id let you to your demise knowing how you feel about mine. Might wanna re think your stance. this country isnt immune to foriegn terror...incase you missed out on the last ...oh say...15 years. Idiocy is rampant and the future is bleak at best. Better to be armed and not need to, then wish you hadnt had this argument. Just saying.
Biscuit

Offline fish

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Re: this is why we need the 2nd ammendment
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2013, 03:29:06 PM »
wise advice TG