Shoutbox

Refresh History
  • littlebit: Makes sense.
    July 16, 2017, 04:40:28 AM
  • Lepard LLC: Boards will stay open for a place people can find history information longer. I am not allowing anyone to sign up for now because of so many foreginers just wanting to promote their business..
    December 10, 2016, 05:10:27 AM
  • Lepard LLC: Not sure why didn't look, I may be shutting down these message boards..
    November 17, 2016, 12:42:43 AM
  • ~kathy~: rick why is the timestamp showing up a day in advance?
    September 13, 2016, 12:27:46 AM
  • Valor7: What I tried to say is that the actual money would not be there that quick. But a loan against that would work if they are willing to do that.
    August 08, 2016, 01:51:51 PM
  • Lepard LLC: Why so long before it comes online? 911 took out a loan or bond with the known guarantee payment and began building..
    August 08, 2016, 07:46:34 AM
  • Valor7: Actually no it is not, a dependable Revenue stream will not come on line until the 4th quarter of 2017 so 2018 budget will be up in the air, not quite sure what they will have. By 2019 budget all will be well.
    August 04, 2016, 09:27:17 PM
  • Valor7: You mean that tax that the Commissioners would not put on the ballot for so many years? Strange things happened when the citizens got a chance to vote on that issue.
    August 03, 2016, 06:43:06 PM
  • Lepard LLC: Back up is now available withe the new tax..
    August 03, 2016, 05:01:35 PM
  • Valor7: Thanks a lot Ladies!!
    July 29, 2016, 01:16:13 PM
  • littlebit: ((*(*&
    July 27, 2016, 03:47:52 PM
  • ~kathy~: lol
    July 15, 2016, 09:34:56 AM
  • Valor7: A guy could get killed around here while waiting for backup!
    July 13, 2016, 07:31:58 PM
  • Lepard LLC: You are not alone..
    July 13, 2016, 07:28:53 PM
  • Valor7: I just hate it when I talk to myself!!!!
    July 08, 2016, 12:54:09 PM
  • Valor7: I could have worded that better, we talked details, options, the pros and cons of each, in  order to arrive at the best ballot language to present to the voters. Hope that makes this clearer.
    April 15, 2016, 06:36:14 PM
  • Valor7: sorry about the typos still working with just one arm in action
    April 13, 2016, 01:10:42 PM
  • Valor7: Yes and no. We talked details and options until we were blue in the face but I never heardbring it over, it was always the time was not right for the issue to pass. Glad to see the time in now right and I for one shall vote yes on the ballot. I would urge all others to do the sameour county is busting at the seams crimewise and no matter how many bad guys we send off there always seems to someone to replace them. The Sheriff's Office needs the help.
    April 13, 2016, 01:08:35 PM
  • Lepard LLC: Is that true Valor? Did he ask you what you wanted?
    March 01, 2016, 04:55:37 AM
  • Lepard LLC: Gene Newkirk Rick I have waited for a Sheriff to bring it to me on what he wanted. I have pushed Mr long for a while to get it to me. He told me he was close to having or done. Now hopefully the people will get to decide on it. I spoke with Steve about this a few times.
    March 01, 2016, 04:54:54 AM
  • Kimberly: Wow- I have a new name..........
    February 23, 2016, 10:25:15 PM
  • Lepard LLC: Works on mine, improvements are being done here. I may kick back into her a lot and post but working on different technologies right now. Seeing how things interact.
    January 18, 2016, 09:01:20 AM
  • Valor7: Yes it is working. If you need a laugh the wife showed me how to correctly use the silly thing.
    January 04, 2016, 05:32:59 PM
  • Valor7: Think so, mine is trying to work but it is now user and password protected and I dont know mine
    December 17, 2015, 01:32:16 PM
  • "DJ": Is there still a working android app for the PCSD
    December 14, 2015, 08:14:53 PM

Author Topic: Without a Hearing  (Read 2325 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Without a Hearing
« on: February 23, 2013, 09:40:51 PM »

Share/Bookmark


Offline Hi

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 903
  • Karma: +13281/-13254
  • Go to your profile and put something here.
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 03:50:31 PM »
wnd.com should be renamed chickenlittle.com

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 06:00:15 PM »
YOu better look a little closer.  They are taking away rights without proper judicial review.  Breaking the law as usual when it suits them.  And yes they do want to lable all veterans as potential "terrorists."  Wonder why?  Well it just may be due to the training and experiences they have to overcome great odds.

Offline Chas

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 1856
  • Karma: +11629/-2363
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2013, 06:22:21 PM »
OLD news that NOTHING to do with Obama. This is more scare tactics from those that want no kind of debate on gun rights.   The VA has always had competence hearing nothing new. We sort of discussed this in another post.  (Petition to allow all honorably Discharged Veterans to carry a concealed weapon)  If you’re crazy and I don’t care how you got that way born nuts or went nuts because of PTSD you don’t get to have a gun. I do agree if they are going to be doing this then there needs to a hearing and you do get one.  As I said this is nothing new.  Hi is right it’s chicken little.
One of my responses to the post mentioned above and marsnot reply.
Chas-There is not a good answer on the poll.  I'm a veteran, a lot of my friends are veterans  and I know some  veterans that are honorably discharge that I wouldn't want to have a gun again.. Being a veteran shouldn't be enough of reason to have CCW. They should have to go through the same process as the rest of America.
Marsnot-I agree with Chas.  Each individual should have to go through the course as required by state law.  Need to know the law as well as how to shoot.  And I also know some honorably discharged vets who I probably would not want carrying to.
§3.353 Determinations of incompetency and competency. Rules and Regulations
(a) Definition of mental incompetency. A mentally incompetent person is one who because of injury or disease lacks the mental capacity to contract or to manage his or her own affairs, including disbursement of funds without limitation.
(b) Authority.
(1) Rating agencies have sole authority to make official determinations of competency and incompetency for purposes of: insurance (38 U.S.C. 1922), and, subject to §13.56 of this chapter, disbursement of benefits. Such determinations are final and binding on field stations for these purposes.
(2) Where the beneficiary is rated incompetent, the Veterans Service Center Manager will develop information as to the beneficiary’s social, economic and industrial adjustment; appoint (or recommend appointment of) a fiduciary as provided in §13.55 of this chapter; select a method of disbursing payment as provided in §13.56 of this chapter, or in the case of a married beneficiary, appoint the beneficiary’s spouse to receive payments as provided in §13.57 of this chapter; and authorize disbursement of the benefit.
(3) If in the course of fulfilling the responsibilities assigned in paragraph (b)(2) the Veterans Service Center Manager develops evidence indicating that the beneficiary may be capable of administering the funds payable without limitation, he or she will refer that evidence to the rating agency with a statement as to his or her findings. The rating agency will consider this evidence, together with all other evidence of record, to determine whether its prior determination of incompetency should remain in effect. Reexamination may be requested as provided in §3.327(a) if necessary to properly evaluate the beneficiary’s mental capacity to contract or manage his or her own affairs.
(c) Medical opinion. Unless the medical evidence is clear, convincing and leaves no doubt as to the person’s incompetency, the rating agency will make no determination of incompetency without a definite expression regarding the question by the responsible medical authorities. Considerations of medical opinions will be in accordance with the principles in paragraph (a) of this section. Determinations relative to incompetency should be based upon all evidence of record and there should be a consistent relationship between the percentage of disability, facts relating to commitment or hospitalization and the holding of incompetency.
(d) Presumption in favor of competency. Where reasonable doubt arises regarding a beneficiary’s mental capacity to contract or to manage his or her own affairs, including the disbursement of funds without limitation, such doubt will be resolved in favor of competency (see §3.102 on reasonable doubt).
(e) Due process. Whenever it is proposed to make an incompetency determination, the beneficiary will be notified of the proposed action and of the right to a hearing as provided in §3.103. Such notice is not necessary if the beneficiary has been declared incompetent by a court of competent jurisdiction or if a guardian has been appointed for the beneficiary based upon a court finding of incompetency. If a hearing is requested it must be held prior to a rating decision of incompetency. Failure or refusal of the beneficiary after proper notice to request or cooperate in such a hearing will not preclude a rating decision based on the evidence of record. (Authority: 38 U.S.C. 501(a))

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 06:37:22 PM »
COURT finding.  The VA is not using the court or a judge.  It is arbitrary in nature.  A good many veterans have "PTSD" and function just fine.  Their ability to own a gun should now be determined by the VA but by a judge.  The disability rating has nothing to do with this Constitutional right.  If Obama has his way and a vet is being treated for it, they will automatically lose their Constitutional rights.  Remember the MIAC report also.  If you can't pull it up, let me  know.  ONLY a judge can make such a determination and not some disability clerk.

Offline Chas

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 1856
  • Karma: +11629/-2363
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2013, 07:08:46 PM »
Again nothing new.  This has been going on for a while.  If you are not able to take care of your finances then you don’t need a gun either.  These people have been diagnosed with a mental illness. This is not done by a disability clerk but by shrinks etc, people in the health care field. If they want to appeal or to go court they can.   www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/03/veterans-gun-rights-sticking-point-in-defense-bill/

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2013, 07:28:20 PM »
They are supposed to go to court before such a determination and in order that a proper determination be adjudicated.  Without proper adjudication, it is illegal.  They should not have to go to court to appeal something that was not properly adjudicated in the first place.  More of that lack of due process.  And please re-read the MIAC report.  This is just one of many things going on to discredit veterans.

Offline Chas

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 1856
  • Karma: +11629/-2363
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 10:01:57 PM »
This has been the law since 1993 so if you want to blame a president blame Clinton. So again you are trying to blame Obama for things that he had nothing to do with. I don’t care if you don’t like Obama, I’m not his biggest fan I would just like you and others to put the blame where it belongs and quit taking the easy way out and saying Obama did it. There are things that you can blame him for without making things up.   If this was such a big issue why didn’t the Bush admin. do something about it?  Why, because there was no talk about gun control. I’m sorry but if a VA shrink thinks you are incompetent then you don’t need a gun. 
There were more soldiers killed in 2012 by suicide then in combat.   So until they can figure out how and why PTSD has caused this to happen, if a shrink says you’re crazy then you’re crazy.  It wasn’t that long that in Pulaski County where we had a GI try to kill his wife then killed himself. If you are going to error then you should error on the side of safety.

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2013, 12:47:02 AM »
Hell, there were more people killed in Chicago than in combat last year.  A gun free zone.  I am saying it is illegal.  Period.  And Clinton is another democrat.  So what you are saying is any shrink can express his opinion and that is it.  No Judge needs enter into it  No due process is necessary.
 
Yes there are a number of things Obama himself can be blamed for and should be impeached for.

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2013, 01:19:47 AM »
wnd.com should be renamed chickenlittle.com
Speaking of that, any of you listened to Obama cry about what 2.5% budget cuts are going to do?  Oh and he is the one who wanted all this to happen.

Offline fish

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 8885
  • Karma: +349278/-349867
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2013, 02:22:55 AM »
nobama is allowing the practice to continue under his watch. he could stop it.

Offline Chas

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 1856
  • Karma: +11629/-2363
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2013, 03:06:42 PM »
So could congress. After all they do the budget

Offline Chas

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 1856
  • Karma: +11629/-2363
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2013, 03:11:07 PM »
Most judges take the word of the shrinks. Judges study law not mental health.  Bush could of stopped as well.  If you can't handle your own money than you can't handle a gun. Everybody keeps saying enforce the laws on the books and do more about mental health but when they do people start whining about it.  It has been a law for 20 years and deals with mental health.

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2013, 04:03:29 PM »
Not a law. a regulation  a difference. ADJUDICATION.  And they do not always listen.  Witness SSI candidates.

Offline Chas

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 1856
  • Karma: +11629/-2363
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2013, 04:22:31 PM »
Both the states as well as the federal government already restrict the sale or possession of firearms by individuals found (“adjudicated”) to be mentally ill or mentally incompetent. The federal law is 18 U.S.C. § 922(d), which states it is unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person “has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution.”
I don’t have a problem with giving them their day in court but if you have been found unfit to handle your own affairs then you don’t get to handle a gun. My problem with it is people act like this just started when it has been around for 20 years.

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2013, 06:03:01 PM »
My problem is thta it has been around for 20 years.  since the VA does no use an administrative judge, the person has not been adjudicated. Involuntary placement for observation does not count.  If they have been involuntarily placed for their safety or the safety opf pothers, that is a different story.  Most have NOT.


Offline fish

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 8885
  • Karma: +349278/-349867
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2013, 08:36:14 PM »
"If you can't handle your own money than you can't handle a gun." This is a reason a vet should have 2nd ammendment rights taken away??? Then this should apply to civilians. be a condition for bankrutcy, welfare, bounced checks. see how far that goes! LOL but screw over those that gave some to defend and protect this country.

Offline Chas

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 1856
  • Karma: +11629/-2363
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2013, 08:51:15 PM »
Ok, I oversimplified the money thing but if a person is found to be incompetent and I will agree that a person should get a hearing then yes take their guns. Veteran or civilian. However bankruptcy and welfare have nothing to do with being competent.


Offline fish

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 8885
  • Karma: +349278/-349867
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2013, 08:55:07 PM »
mentally incompetant, as the result of a hearing, not a records check or dr visit.

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile

Offline fish

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 8885
  • Karma: +349278/-349867
    • View Profile
Re: Without a Hearing
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2013, 12:35:13 AM »


Department of Veterans Affairs: We Will Not Comply With New York’s Gun Law

On March 11, 2013, in Andrew Cuomo, Gun Control, New York, by Rusty Weiss
 
Citing a pesky little thing known as the Constitution of the United States, the Department of Veterans Affairs has vowed that they will not comply with a provision in the New York SAFE Act that requires doctors to alert authorities to people they deem “likely” to pose a threat.

Via New York World:


The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs said it will not comply with New York State’s new law requiring mental health providers to report potentially dangerous individuals to state authorities.

The Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement (SAFE) Act, the sweeping gun-control law that goes into effect this week, calls on doctors and therapists to alert county health officials to patients they deem “likely” to engage in conduct that will result in serious self-injury or harm to others.

Once notified of potentially harmful individuals, the state will check their names against a new state database of licensed gun owners. If there’s a match, local law enforcement will be authorized to remove weapons if their owner does not voluntarily surrender them.

Mark Ballesteros, spokesperson for the Department of Veterans Affairs, said that the U.S. Constitution forces his agency to follow federal law, not New York’s new rules.

“Federal laws safeguarding the confidentiality of veterans’ treatment records do not authorize VA mental-health professionals to comply with this NY State law,” he said in an emailed statement.

One glaring issue with this provision lies in the vague definition of the word “likely”.  But another more specific problem for the VA as Ballesteros points out, is that compliance with such a measure would cause immense apprehension for those veterans who may already be concerned about being treated for PTSD.
- See more at: http://menrec.com/department-of-veterans-affairs-we-will-not-comply-with-new-yorks-gun-law/#sthash.pmLjJdXC.dpuf




http://menrec.com/department-of-veterans-affairs-we-will-not-comply-with-new-yorks-gun-law/

Offline matrsnot

  • Registered User
  • ******************
  • Posts: 7612
  • Karma: +489606/-6227
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile