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Author Topic: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions  (Read 4360 times)

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Offline mark

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We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2014, 03:49:50 PM »

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2014, 03:57:33 PM »
Wood is simply not strong enough to make a seaworthy vessel longer than about 100 meters.  The only material available to Noah was wood, and god actually told Noah to make the ark from wood ... but apparently god forgot to tell Noah that he (god) hadn't made wood strong enough for the job.
Apparently, god can't do simple engineering calculations.

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2014, 04:00:02 PM »
Oh and whether you realized it or not this article points to the Babylonion Noah, so the only thing this article proves is the Jews plagiarized the flood story from the Babylonian Gilgamesh and Atra-Hasis epics, which are on the order of 200-800 years older than the bible.

Offline mark

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2014, 06:05:38 PM »
Oh and whether you realized it or not this article points to the Babylonion Noah, so the only thing this article proves is the Jews plagiarized the flood story from the Babylonian Gilgamesh and Atra-Hasis epics, which are on the order of 200-800 years older than the bible.
As if you were there LOL, It took a while to write the Bible! Stories and events used to be passed along VERBALY. Same story Same God! Dummies have tried everything in every field of science now for 150 years and counting, to discredit the Bible (And like you....by shear speculation) Still can't do it, and never will!
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Offline ebilly99

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 06:19:45 PM »
As if you were there LOL,
Remember neither were you. A campfire may be long gone but burnt wood and a rock structure point to there origins. 
It took a while to write the Bible! Stories and events used to be passed along VERBALY.
And yet we are to trust these as the words of god.
Same story Same God!
Um no, that is like saying Babylon 5 and star trek are the same show because earth exist. 
Dummies have tried everything in every field of science now for 150 years and counting, to discredit the Bible (And like you....by shear speculation) Still can't do it, and never will!
Mark, it is impossible to fix stupid. I can't prove something to people who are too dumb to understand even the most fundamentalist foundation of science.

Offline mark

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 06:40:29 PM »
Son....I had a pretty good grasp of science long before you were born. I went to engineering school in the late 70s and was getting As in Physics before you were conceived. Like most atheists...you think you are smarter than Christians because of your vast understanding of science. Every generation has had this problem throughout the years. And the next one ALWAYS proves them wrong and must revert back to the truth in the Bible. Try getting over yourself for a while and ask God for the truth (with your heart!) He will reveal it to you!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
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Offline ebilly99

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 06:52:29 PM »
Son....I had a pretty good grasp of science long before you were born. I went to engineering school in the late 70s and was getting As in Physics before you were conceived. Like most atheists...you think you are smarter than Christians because of your vast understanding of science. Every generation has had this problem throughout the years. And the next one ALWAYS proves them wrong and must revert back to the truth in the Bible. Try getting over yourself for a while and ask God for the truth (with your heart!) He will reveal it to you!
You claim to be a engineer and don't wonder how a boat like the arc could work. Physics is not all of science, it is but the science of movement. We aren't smarter than you, we just took our nose out of a 4000 year old book and saw the world as it is. Try getting over your god and use your brain. Could a wooden boat of these dimensions float. Could it withstand a global storm. Could they store enough food for half a year for ever animal and eight people. Could eight people rebuild the world? Please use your engineering and show how this is possible.

Offline mark

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 06:58:44 PM »
First you have to understand they took two of each KIND of animal. Far less than your atheistic science teachers will tell you! Then you must understand that there were two kinds, eight people, AND GOD on board! Lastly....why can't eight people rebuild the world when you think a lighting bolt hit some pond scum and did it?
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
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Offline mark

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 07:07:31 PM »
This guy has a PHD in molecular biology! What do you do again? make burgers?
Speciation and the Animals on the Ark

by Daniel Criswell, Ph.D. *

Many people who use biological data to support an old-earth position believe that the appearance of millions of animal species does not support a young earth interpretation of creation. Nor do they think that a recent global Flood would support the existence of a great number of animals today if Noah only took two of each kind on the Ark. However, the science of how speciation occurs, and the definition of a species versus the biblical kind, does explain how many variations of the same kind of animal can arise quickly from small populations, such as those on Noah's Ark.

Reproductive Isolation and Speciation

The definition of species is different for many scientists and is not a standardized term. Many scientists define species as a population of animals that are reproductively isolated from other similar species. Reproductive isolation can occur in a number of ways and result in speciation from one kind of animal through events that isolate one variation (species) from another. Many of these isolation events have been identified and are described as behavioral isolation, ecological isolation, and geographical isolation, to name a few.

Geographical isolation is one of the best understood events and likely the most common. Geographical isolation results when two variations of the same kind of animal migrate and become separated by a geographical barrier preventing the two animal variations (species) from having contact and interbreeding. Once completely separated, the two populations of animals possess variations of some genes, resulting in two "species" that differ in appearance (color, size, etc.) and behavior.

The colorful Ensatina salamanders of the Pacific coast are good examples of geographical isolation. These little salamanders migrated south through the Sierra Nevada Mountains and the coastal mountains of California. The drier San Joaquin Valley, between the two mountain ranges, prevents large-scale interbreeding between several species of these salamanders. Each species looks different, but when they are brought into contact with each other they will breed and produce hybrid offspring. The migration pattern that facilitated Ensatina speciation and the ability to hybridize indicate that these salamanders belong to the same kind of animal. African leopards and South American jaguars would be another good example of two species of the same kind of animal geographically isolated from each other.

Ecological isolation results when animals of the same kind live in different habitats. Bears provide another example of how scientists classify animals as different species that are the same kind. Grizzly bears (Ursa arctos) and polar bears (U. maritimus) are ecologically isolated most of the year, but can produce fertile offspring when they come in contact with each other. The ability to reproduce in the wild suggests that they are a single kind of animal separated only by their different fur color and other minor physical features that enable them to adapt to different ecosystems.

Eastern and western meadowlarks, Sturnella magna and S. neglecta respectively, are classified as different species and provide a good example of behavioral isolation. Eastern and western meadowlarks don't typically interbreed in the wild, partly because they don't readily recognize the mating song of the other species and partly because they prefer slightly different habitats. Both species are nearly identical in appearance and are physically capable of interbreeding in the laboratory, and occasionally hybrids between the two species are identified in natural habitats. The potential to reproduce, and the nearly identical appearance and genetic constitution of these two bird species, certainly qualifies them as the same biblical kind, in spite of their classification as different species.

There are more examples of how different kinds of reproductive isolation cause speciation from a common kind of animal. Speciation events are documented for nearly every kind of animal that has been described, and recently it has been estimated that 10 percent of all animal species still hybridize (mate with other species, producing fertile offspring) in the wild, and even more when brought into contact with each other in captivity. This evidence indicates that most species had a common ancestor from which similar species have descended. This might appear as evolution, but it is not. How this would happen without evolution can be illustrated by considering the descendants of the animals aboard Noah's Ark.

Millions of Species in a Few Hundred Years?

Some people who object to a recent-creation interpretation of Genesis point to the fact that such a view requires that all modern animal species on earth must have descended from these same species saved on the Ark. If the Ark had roughly 30,000 animals (less than 15,000 species or different kinds), how could the animals on the Ark produce millions of species within a few hundred, or a few thousand, years after the Flood? Surely this would require a faster evolutionary rate than even the most ardent evolutionist would propose.

However, it is not correct to assume that a few thousand species would have produced the millions of species extant (alive) today. There are fewer than 30,000 extant species of mammals, birds, reptiles, and possibly land-reproducing amphibians (many salamanders) that were represented on the Ark. The millions of other species are the invertebrates (>95 percent of all animal species), fish, and a few aquatic mammals and reptiles that survived in the water during the Flood. The processes of speciation discussed above need to only double the number of animal species from 15,000 to 30,000. This is certainly a feasible process based on observable science.

Evolution, defined as large-scale changes that produce one kind of organism from another kind, is not capable of producing the millions of species observed today from the 15,000 different kinds of animals on the Ark. However, the genetic potential of each kind of animal and the freedom from genetic equilibrium, combined with mutations, would allow the appearance of many different species from the few animals on the Ark.

Genetic Potential for Variation

The genetic potential to produce a wide range of variation in any animal kind or species, regardless of how these terms are defined, easily provides 30,000 different species from fewer than 15,000 different kinds. Genetic potential is the amount of variation that a kind or type of organism can produce from the genetic material that is already present. It is possible for a pair of animals to harbor nearly all of the alleles (variations of a type of gene) for their kind in their genome.

Other alleles result from mutations to existing genes (human red hair color would be a good example of this). For example, two humans (Adam and Eve?) could have all the common DNA variations (called polymorphisms) found in all ethnic groups. This would require only one DNA base difference every 667 bases between the two of them. This is hardly a difficult situation for the genomes of two people and can account for much of the genetic variation observed in people today. Rare polymorphisms are few in number compared to common polymorphisms and are likely the result of the accumulation of mutations. These rare polymorphisms are frequently referred to as personal polymorphisms, since they can be used to identify an individual.

The effects of common and rare polymorphisms can be easily illustrated by all domesticated animals and their various breeds. Dogs, cattle, hamsters, and tropical fish all have many different breeds that easily demonstrate what genetic potential is. Of course, these are all artificially selected animals and selecting for these breeds has led to a much faster rate of variation (what some call evolution) than would be expected in the wild. (Most dog breeds have been developed in the last 200 years.)

Species Classification

Domesticated animals, as examples of genetic potential, do not motivate a scientist to name a new breed of dog a species. However, there is more phenotypic and genetic variation in domesticated animals than there are in many, if not most, wild "species" of animals that were discussed above. The only requirement to be classified as a species, in many cases, is for two populations of animals to be reproductively isolated. Most people would be hard pressed to identify an eastern meadowlark from a western meadowlark, but they are classified as different species simply because they have different mating songs and are reproductively isolated in the wild. Many of these animals are so close phenotypically (in appearance) that only an expert can tell them apart.

Even humans have far more phenotypic variation than many animals that are divided into separate species, and scientists are not about to start classifying different ethnic groups of humans as different species. The decision to classify an animal as a new species isn't completely arbitrary, but the modern scientific definition of a species is not determined by the biblical kind.

To maximize the number of animals on the Ark with the genetic potential to produce all the variation we see today requires a genetic engineer who knows the genetic composition of each animal. Genesis 6:20 tells us that God brought the animals to Noah to be put on the Ark. It clearly indicates that God chose the animals to be saved and it is likely that the choice of animal was based on the genetic potential to produce a variety of animals after the Flood. God is the omniscient genetic engineer who chose each animal and made the variation in extant animals possible from all the animals on the Ark.

Hardy-Weinberg Equilibrium

The other important factor to be considered in this scenario is something called genetic (Hardy-Weinberg) equilibrium for the gene frequencies of a particular population of organisms. The change in gene frequency is used in evolutionary theory as evidence for microevolution, but this theorem can also be applied to a creation scenario since it does not involve the formation of novel genes from no genes. Hardy-Weinberg theory states that gene (or more accurately, allele) frequencies will remain constant as long as these requirements are met: random mating, no migration in or out of the population, no mutation, no genetic drift (chance changes in gene frequencies), and no selection for traits.

When the animals left the Ark none of these conditions would be met, enabling microevolution (change in allele frequency) and speciation events. These events include the selection of mates (for humans specifically), environmental selection of some traits, accumulation of mutations, chance genetic drift, and migration of animals taking with them different combinations of genetic material. Because of the small populations of animals immediately after the Flood, gene (allele) frequencies would rapidly be altered as animals migrated around the globe, adapted to various environments based on their genetic constitution, and became reproductively isolated.

This would result in many variations of the original animals on the Ark, just like artificial selection produces many variations in domestic animals. This is not just a creation paradigm. Many population genetic studies, for any animal, include migration and reproductive isolation leading to speciation. The migration of humans around the globe is well-documented and based on the changing gene frequencies (such as ABO blood alleles and mitochondrial DNA) in each population. It is also well documented from DNA and protein sequences that all animals had migratory events that contributed to the ecological, behavioral, and geographic speciation events observable today.

All of the examples given above do not require creation of new genes or genetic information via natural processes from genetic information not previously in existence (evolution). The genetic information we observe today was supplied at the time of creation in these animals in their genomes, and their genetic potential has created the variations frequently classified as species. It is true that mutations create many new variations, but this is not an example of Darwinian evolution. Mutations work on pre-existing genetic material, are accompanied with a loss of information, and lead to extinction, not the conversion of one animal kind into another animal kind, regardless of how many years mutations are given.

The Creator God endowed His creatures with the potential for all the wondrous varieties that not only are evident in the fossil record, but also surround us today. This variation is made possible by the genetic information given to animals at the time of creation.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
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Offline fish

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 07:15:29 PM »
"ark", ebilly, not "arc"! LOL you do know the difference? LOL LOL

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 08:08:27 PM »
so you are making a case for evolution now if kinds of animals branched out into different species as you say.

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 08:36:27 PM »
so you are making a case for evolution now if kinds of animals branched out into different species as you say.
The Creator God endowed His creatures with the potential for all the wondrous varieties that not only are evident in the fossil record, but also surround us today. This variation is made possible by the genetic information given to animals at the time of creation.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline shadylane

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 10:59:59 PM »
Interesting stuff!  http://altering-perspectives.com/2014/01/noahs-ark-blueprints-found-4000-year-old-detailed-instructions.html

From an engineering stand point building the Ark in the shape of a big frying pan makes sense.
Given it's purpose. Round is a much better design than the old testament version.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2014, 12:46:12 AM »
Considering the inbreeding after the boat landed I believe you may have descended from the people on board..

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2014, 01:11:37 AM »
Considering the inbreeding after the boat landed I believe you may have descended from the people on board..
So did you Rick!
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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2014, 05:35:31 AM »
So did you Rick!
not necessarily. If he is native american he could have been in america long before the Flood happened in Israel. (Or China or England. Really as long as we are not from mesopotamia 6000 years ago we are fine.)


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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2014, 12:43:56 PM »


 500 Flood stories around the WORLD!  Many of these have the following three things in common:

1. The flood destroyed nearly all animal life on the earth,
 2. A vessel of safety was provided.
 3. Animals and people were on board.
 And today in the fossil record we find SEA CREATURES in every desert and on every mountain. Clams on the tops of mountains in the closed (Or living position) when they died! I can personally drive across the new hwy. 17 bridge (and so can you) and look at the rounded bluff that's 200 feet high where the Roubideau meets the Gasconade river. Or float by Portuguese point on the Gasconade also 200' tall. This was caused by water! And no it wasn't just glacial runoff. It was a flea flickin flood! I'm awake are you!


We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
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Offline fish

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2014, 02:05:07 PM »
the flood was world wide. it was not a local flood

Offline shadylane

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2014, 02:22:12 PM »
Were did the flood water come from and were did it go?
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2014, 05:25:57 PM »

 500 Flood stories around the WORLD!  Many of these have the following three things in common:
Actually they have four, They were all near rivers. Imagine that.

1. The flood destroyed nearly all animal life on the earth,
Well floods seem to do that. They flood.

 2. A vessel of safety was provided.
Wow you mean you take a boat in a flood, What other way would you get out?

 3. Animals and people were on board.
You mean farmers took there livestock?

 And today in the fossil record we find SEA CREATURES in every desert and on every mountain. Clams on the tops of mountains in the closed (Or living position) when they died!
You mean Plate Techtonics make mountains... You don't say
I can personally drive across the new hwy. 17 bridge (and so can you) and look at the rounded bluff that's 200 feet high where the Roubideau meets the Gasconade river. Or float by Portuguese point on the Gasconade also 200' tall. This was caused by water! And no it wasn't just glacial runoff. It was a flea flickin flood! I'm awake are you!
No it was a Glacier, I am sorry you disagree, but a flood wouldn't do that anyway. Only running water would make indents like that, and a flood wouldn't be running water would it.


Offline fish

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2014, 05:39:06 PM »
a flood wouldn't be running water? LOL LOL I think some people that got caught in last years flood would disagree!

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2014, 05:56:10 PM »
a flood wouldn't be running water? LOL LOL I think some people that got caught in last years flood would disagree!
A flood from a river... Oh really. But that isn't what we are arguing. We were arguing about a global flood, where would the water be rushing to. If you have even spreading rain then there is no reason for the waters to be moving at all.

Offline mark

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2014, 06:39:03 PM »
When the flood goes up or down the water rushes to the low spots. Geeez igetts. This is also the best explanation for the grand canyon. A giant lake was left from the flood at the top of the grand canyon This is where the petrified forest region is. (obviously under water) It broke loose near the top of the canyon and carved it in a matter of days! It wasn't the Colorado river forming it over billions of years, Rivers don't last that long. and the sediment would be at the end if it were slowly carved! The water came from "the firmament above" and the "fountains of the deep broke open" Yes there is water above us and below us. I asked the well digger that dug my well if he had ever hit a dry hole? His answer was NO! I know when you don't "believe" this all sounds crazy.......UNTIL YOU TRY TO EXPLAIN IT WITHOUT GOD AND THE FLOOD! That's when it really becomes a fairy tale. Really....lightning hit some pond scum and we've grown into God like creatures with DNA that is in every cell loaded with more information than the best computers we have? And it all came from a dot the size of a period on this page! Yep that's how it happened. Can't believe you sheeple still fall for that with the advances we've made in science its been proven IMPOSSIBLE!  P.S. I used the term "believe" because God kinda has this rule if you want the truth.....Not because it isn't fact!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
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Offline mark

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2014, 06:45:53 PM »
What was the other dumb question.........Oh yea "Only 4 flood stories"  Here's a link  http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline Hi

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2014, 09:18:09 PM »
the world was repopulated by 8 people
the pyramids were built about 100 years after the flood - that is a lot of kids from 4 couples
an all loving god kills everything on the planet, what happened to free will?
god covers all land with 30 cubits of water(45 ft), he missed it by well over 25,000 ft
population distribution would have been a bitch
wonder how many fresh water aquariums the Ark had - and how it stayed afloat
In the end - it seems legit

Im also quite pleased Noah was able to drop  off all the marsupials into Austrailia before it was ever discovered.

Its also a poor lack of planning on somebodies part, because somebody forgot to tell china they were underwater.

Offline fish

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2014, 09:52:01 PM »
 I don't think God created a flat world! LOL  Did that rain come down even last year? What about the low spots in fields that filled up and the water drained into the rivers? Get a gard hose with a spray nozzle and play in the yard! You might get an epiphany! LOL LOL

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2014, 10:41:46 PM »
These people really believe they are smarter than God! Blows my mind. Kinda tiered of answering dumb questions tonight. Just going to let them dig their own hole.
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
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Offline shadylane

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Re: Noah’s Ark Blueprints Found—4,000-Year-Old Detailed Instructions
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2014, 12:15:53 PM »
These people really believe they are smarter than God! Blows my mind. Kinda tiered of answering dumb questions tonight. Just going to let them dig their own hole.

No we're just smarter than you. And we are employed.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"