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Author Topic: Capitalism VS Socialism  (Read 2008 times)

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Offline shadylane

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Capitalism VS Socialism
« on: February 20, 2014, 01:37:52 AM »

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"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline ebilly99

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 08:42:42 PM »
What are the extremes of the Capitalism and Socialism?
And what problems come with having either one of them in it's purist form.
Capitalism, in it's purest form creates a rich class that prunes every penny it can from the poor and attempts to destroy the middle class. It would destroy the environment and create unsafe products to save on manufacturing cost.

I don't know enough about socialism to say anything.

Offline shadylane

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2014, 12:26:05 AM »
I'm surprised someone from the right wing hasn't come forward and defined socialism.
Their always saying the word.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline igahmah at work

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2014, 03:16:35 AM »
I'm not an expert, but from what I have seen in history books and from my observances in the last 66 years, it seems that Socialism gets rid of every class but middle class except for the people who are running the government.  There is no need to get an education or strive for a better position in life because everybody gets the same thing.  I would rather have the option to start at the bottom and WORK my way up, than to just be given what the government thinks I need.  I want to be able to buy my own health insurance and see whatever doctor I want and go to the doctor anytime I want.  I don't want the government to decide I don't need a doctor.  I want to be able to tell my grandchildren to do well in school, study hard, play sports, work for a scholarship so you can attend college, not have the government tell them they can't go to college.  As I said, I'm not an expert, I've just seen how it appears to have not worked in other countries. 
When I was young, I wanted to be older.  This is not what I expected!

Offline fish

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2014, 04:12:55 AM »
capitalism works, socialism does not. there are plenty of examples around the world to clearly see the results.

Offline ebilly99

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 05:42:40 AM »
capitalism works, socialism does not. there are plenty of examples around the world to clearly see the results.
Actually there is no pure form of either that exist or ever has existed. The closest we ever got was the early church when everyone was to pool there money together to build up communities and feed the poor. Again it was not a pure form, but instead one you didn't have to do. Capitalism without government oversight gives us coal mines and child labor and of the 1800's. A minimum wage law and retirement was also force by the government.

Offline fish

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 01:55:13 PM »
it wasn't forced. it was legislated. the country was still in it's infancy economically. that is why with all the legislation passed on labor, unions are not that important anymore. what is screwing up business is the social requirements put on them, such as nobamacare, same sex marriage benefit, family leaves. government's role in business is to remove the barriers to growth. the epa is a large job killer. look at what the unregulated epa is doing to coal. how many jobs lost? The las lead smelter in the US closed because of the epa . how many jobs lost there? The lead will now have to be imported or obtained from lead recycling facilities, at a higher cost. the raw material cost goes up, the cost of goods goes up. government is not the answer and much of the problem to the economy. nobama has proven that since taking office.

Offline ebilly99

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 05:46:21 PM »
it wasn't forced. it was legislated. the country was still in it's infancy economically. that is why with all the legislation passed on labor, unions are not that important anymore.
As important, perhaps. That said there are reasons for some unions. If the forces are eliminated then why would corporations allow a living wage. Those who are not the select few would live on minimum wage. 
what is screwing up business is the social requirements put on them, such as nobamacare,
Actually hate to say it but you are right. Obamacare was unwise to implement in today's environment. It really should have been looked at closer. 
same sex marriage benefit,
No Marriage benefits, Hetro or homo makes no difference.
family leaves. Government's role in business is to remove the barriers to growth.
And to prevent one company from owning everything and allowing the individual to pull themselves up by there bootstraps.
the epa is a large job killer. look at what the unregulated epa is doing to coal.
Again agree, however without a EPA we end up with China's air. We are to far in one direction, that is sure. However that does not mean we need to get rid of it.
how many jobs lost? The las lead smelter in the US closed because of the epa . how many jobs lost there? The lead will now have to be imported or obtained from lead recycling facilities, at a higher cost. the raw material cost goes up, the cost of goods goes up. government is not the answer and much of the problem to the economy. nobama has proven that since taking office.
You bring up good points fish but they are tangents. The question is about extremes on both ends.

Offline fish

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 06:13:33 PM »
they are not tangents. they are facts of the result of an unregulated gov't agency eliminating jobs.

name a country where socialism works. America has proven time and again capitalism works, until gov't gets involved!

marriage benefits do matter. it goes against the values of the business that disagrees with false marriage but may be forced to provide the same benefits as normal marriage.

there is already legislation to prevent monopolies and rigging markets; sherman anti trust  act

family leave act has nothing to do with monopolies. it was a forced leave burden on business

competition drives wages. the best qualified get higher comp packages then those less qualified. if the min wage was raised to 15 an hr. the qualifications for the job would be revised...up! many of those in min wage jobs would be gone.

Offline ebilly99

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 07:14:03 PM »
they are not tangents. they are facts of the result of an unregulated gov't agency eliminating jobs.
Yes they are tangents because the question was not if a more capitalist country was greater than a more socialist. If so you would have been right on the ball. The question was if you had a extreme socialism and a extreme capitalism what they would look like.
name a country where socialism works. America has proven time and again capitalism works, until gov't gets involved!
None, I agree with you.

marriage benefits do matter. it goes against the values of the business that disagrees with false marriage but may be forced to provide the same benefits as normal marriage.
Either they are good for everyone or no one. I am willing to take either/or. You can't choose what marriage is better.

there is already legislation to prevent monopolies and rigging markets; sherman anti trust  act
Yes, and the laws on the books needs to be enforced, by Obama and the Democrats s as well. No bank should be to large to fail.

family leave act has nothing to do with monopolies. it was a forced leave burden on business

competition drives wages. the best qualified get higher comp packages then those less qualified. if the min wage was raised to 15 an hr. the qualifications for the job would be revised...up! many of those in min wage jobs would be gone.
Ok our problem is defining what we are talking about. I think America has leaned to far over to socialism. (Or perhaps something even worse. I am not sure) I am just saying the things that Taft, Teddy Roosevelt and other past presidents have done in the past were good things to control companies. I do not think that is the problem today.

Offline shadylane

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2014, 02:03:40 AM »
We're some were between Capitalism and Socialism.
Guess the question is, how far in either direction is acceptable?


"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline fish

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2014, 04:40:19 AM »
the "tangents" are relative to the question. they clarify what happens when there is too much gov't oversight with respect to capitalism. the result is jobs are eliminated. nobamacare is another prime example. for profit hospitals will close because of the billing practices and new requirements forced on them by nobamacare

there are no examples of extreme capitalism. some gov't regulation ( legislation) is necessary, but at little as possible.
 when the postus mandates a minimum wage hike on business, that goes too far. when Chrysler and gm are bailed out but lehman brothers is allowed to fail, the gov't is not applying fair  treatment to business. lehman brothers, Merrill lynch made the banking mess worse, gm and Chrysler would have been absorbed by other car companies.

the market economy works. if a business fails, it fails. many times it will be absorbed by it's competitors. circuit city assets were bought by best buy. sears, radio shack, jc penney may very well be done by years end. their assets will be absorbed by their competitors. a business has the right to be successful and to fail. the gov't should not be the one saving them at taxpayer expense.

Offline shadylane

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2014, 11:33:31 PM »
capitalism works, socialism does not. there are plenty of examples around the world to clearly see the results.

Mr. Fish, your right.
Socialism is self limiting. When it gets too extreme, it fails.
It limits the competition that drives a healthy economy.

What limits Capitalism from getting to extreme?
You want a weak government.
And there are Multinational Corporations that agree with you.
Do you want a strong government that answers to the people?
Or a weak Government that answers to the Money?
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline fish

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Re: Capitalism VS Socialism
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2014, 12:28:08 AM »
the market limits/controls capitalism. the Reagan administration was strong. it started the biggest economic growth since the industrial revolution. how well did wage and price controls work during the Nixon years? price controls didn't work well under carter or Clinton either.
 when there is less interference from government, the market does a pretty good job, not perfect, but a pretty good job regulating capitalism. new products shift the money from the current standard product to the newest thing.

Offline littlebit

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Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

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