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Author Topic: what happened to religious freedom?  (Read 9489 times)

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Offline fish

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what happened to religious freedom?
« on: February 25, 2014, 04:51:00 AM »

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Offline mark

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2014, 11:25:02 AM »
I'm kinda unsure on this! They have the right to refuse service to anyone! Its the gooberment involvement that I'm unsure about? Obummer said in his last State of the union that we should all smoke dope be gay and work for $10 per hour! The gooberment will support anything that will get them votes! This is partly why we have so many homos now. The less the gooberment gets involved the better things will be!
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline fish

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2014, 05:01:07 PM »
the arizona bill will set a precedent, either way. I hope  Gov. Jan Brewer signs it! business owers should noit have to compromise on their religious beliefs. There are other stores that will cater to anyone.

Offline Hi

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2014, 05:22:23 PM »
Outside of gay people having sex openly in their businesses, how would business owners actually know who is gay or not, and therefore who gets service?
Being gay is not like having a different skin color...

on a side note  I'm sure more pressing expenditures than the inevitable law suits leading to a SCOTUS case. A fiscal conservative would reject wasting tax payer money defending what they know will fail to survive.

Offline mark

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2014, 05:40:09 PM »
Outside of gay people having sex openly in their businesses, how would business owners actually know who is gay or not, and therefore who gets service?
Being gay is not like having a different skin color...

on a side note  I'm sure more pressing expenditures than the inevitable law suits leading to a SCOTUS case. A fiscal conservative would reject wasting tax payer money defending what they know will fail to survive.
You can tell. I can tell Hi and ebilly are gay just from our conversations on here.                                    Sunday Sermon
 So, a gay man goes to church one Sunday. As the offering basket is passed, he drops in a big wad of bills.
 When the basket gets back to the minister, he notices the wad of money and announces: "Someone here was very generous in the offering today. I would like to ask the person who gave this large amount of money to please stand."
 The gay man stood up.
 The minister continued, "Well, sir, we certainly do appreciate your generosity. And to show our appreciation, I'm going to let you select your three favorite hymns."
 "Okay," the gay man replied, "I'll take him, him and him!"
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline Hi

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2014, 05:54:49 PM »
Jesus would be proud mark I'm sure.

Offline ebilly99

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 06:58:59 PM »
You can tell. I can tell Hi and ebilly are gay just from our conversations on here.                                    Sunday Sermon
 So, a gay man goes to church one Sunday. As the offering basket is passed, he drops in a big wad of bills.
 When the basket gets back to the minister, he notices the wad of money and announces: "Someone here was very generous in the offering today. I would like to ask the person who gave this large amount of money to please stand."
 The gay man stood up.
 The minister continued, "Well, sir, we certainly do appreciate your generosity. And to show our appreciation, I'm going to let you select your three favorite hymns."
 "Okay," the gay man replied, "I'll take him, him and him!"
Oh gay really!?!? You are aware I have a son correct. How about you go spread your shit elsewhere. While I have nothing wrong with homosexuals I find it a insult that you judge me without knowing me...

Offline mark

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 07:35:30 PM »
Oh gay really!?!? You are aware I have a son correct. How about you go spread your shit elsewhere. While I have nothing wrong with homosexuals I find it a insult that you judge me without knowing me...
Why would that be an insult if you "have no problem with it?"
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience.
~Teilhard de Chardin

Offline fish

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014, 11:30:12 PM »
when a same sex couple ask for a wedding cake for a same sex marriage, it's kinda easy for most to figure out they are gay. the wedding cake request is what started the whining.

gov't needs to stay out of business. If the business wants to turn down money, let it. let the market decide. I am sure there is another bakery that would be happy to bake a cake for the false marriage.

Offline shadylane

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2014, 11:58:09 PM »
A fiscal conservative would reject wasting tax payer money defending what they know will fail to survive.

Surely you jest?
Edited: Not being mean.
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Offline ebilly99

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2014, 04:00:54 AM »
Why would that be an insult if you "have no problem with it?"
Because you judged me without knowing me. Read please.

Offline ebilly99

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2014, 04:03:40 AM »
when a same sex couple ask for a wedding cake for a same sex marriage, it's kinda easy for most to figure out they are gay. the wedding cake request is what started the whining.

gov't needs to stay out of business. If the business wants to turn down money, let it. let the market decide. I am sure there is another bakery that would be happy to bake a cake for the false marriage.
Wasn't this the same answer to inter-racial marriages? It's funny how history repeats itself. In thirty years those few that still deny equal rights will be looked at the same way we look at the KKK today.

Offline fish

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2014, 04:35:09 AM »
nope. homosexuals are not born that way. if this was the answer to inter racial marriage, prove it! I expect you will not be able to. It is not an equal comparison of race and chosen behavior.

the homosexuals could have easily gone somewhere else to get a cake. instead they sue to force their abnormal lifestyle on everyone.

Offline ebilly99

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2014, 01:52:52 PM »
nope. homosexuals are not born that way.
Citation needed, you are making a claim
if this was the answer to inter racial marriage, prove it!
https://www.aclu.org/racial-justice/loving-v-virginia-case-over-interracial-marriage Remeber that the different races were put on seperate continets so they would not breed together. (Judge Leon M. Bazile)
I expect you will not be able to. It is not an equal comparison of race and chosen behavior.
the homosexuals could have easily gone somewhere else to get a cake. instead they sue to force their abnormal lifestyle on everyone.
See you keep saying it is a choice, why would anyone choose it fish.

Offline fish

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2014, 05:37:58 PM »
I am stating a fact. Science has not proven gays are born that way. Plenty of threads for you to read instead of trying to invent the wheel again. That will refresh your short term memory problem

you are confusing the issue. it is not a racial issue. but what was the result of that decision in 1967?

It is a perversion. why would God create something He prohibits?

This is a religious freedom issue. business owners should not be forced to go against their religious beliefs.


Offline ebilly99

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2014, 07:03:29 PM »
I am stating a fact.
Then it shouldn't be hard to cite by a biologist or doctor right
Science has not proven gays are born that way.
Proven, no. Shown plenty of evidence to make a good case for hormones in the mothers system at birth to shape the individuals sexual preferences.
Plenty of threads for you to read instead of trying to invent the wheel again.
I wouldn't have to invent the wheel again if yours worked.
That will refresh your short term memory problem
I remember you trying to pull it out of your hat... and no one buying it.

you are confusing the issue. it is not a racial issue. but what was the result of that decision in 1967?
The same resualts that will happen eventually for same sex couples.

It is a perversion. why would God create something He prohibits?
Is there evidence for the god you claim? Not a random god but the one you pray to.

This is a religious freedom issue. business owners should not be forced to go against their religious beliefs.
This was also a claim made against inter-racial marriages. It was wrong for kind's to mix. It was immoral for "Blacks" and "Whites" to marry. Many preachers refused to marry inter-racial couples. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96577 some even to this day.

All this said, your hatred of homosexuals is confusing. Why is it any different than any other form of Racism. You make the assumption that this is a choice. (Yet you have never tried to prove it, in fact you have refused to try) and have ignored any evidence I have shown you to the contrary. Is it not written to love your neighbor. Is it not written as well that he who is without sin shall cast the first stone? All sins are equal in the eyes of your god. If a person who is homosexual can not get married than you would agree that liars can not marry either. How about anyone who has committed adultery.


The funny thing is that the bible admits that you are born as homosexuals. Matthew 19:11-12
11 But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”
So according to this if you are homosexual you should mutilate yourself. Isn't that just sick, your god wants you to cut it off because of the way you were born.

Offline edward

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2014, 08:18:00 PM »
mark you look gay

Offline fish

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2014, 08:51:55 PM »
your lazyness knows no limit ebilly. The posts are on here. this has been debated and because you still cannot prove your point you bring it up again

do you even know what an eunuch is? If one was born that way, it was a birth defect. What roles did they serve? None sexual. Some willingly became that way to resist the temptations of the flesh. Being born without testicals does not mean a person is homosexual.

homosexuals can marry the opposite sex. it happens as a cover.

Where did I say I hate homosexuals? Proof? momosexuality is a form of racism? LOL LOL I have stated that being homosexual is a choice many times. no homosexual gene. Why would God create what He prohibits? perfectly logical. You just refuse to accept the truth.

your premis would dictate that anyone who has sinned cannot marry. LOL LOL

You can use that verse to justify your homosexuality, but no one is born that way!

you really should think through your thoughts before you post!

Offline ebilly99

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2014, 10:23:10 PM »
your lazyness knows no limit ebilly. The posts are on here. this has been debated and because you still cannot prove your point you bring it up again
Yes they have, and while I gave reason you gave nothing but the bible.

do you even know what an eunuch is? If one was born that way, it was a birth defect. What roles did they serve? None sexual. Some willingly became that way to resist the temptations of the flesh. Being born without testicals does not mean a person is homosexual.
Do you not understand sub... Of course not... they became Eunuch because they lusted after other males. Thus they mutalated themselves so they wouldn't fall to "perversion" You can not read between the lines at all can you..

homosexuals can marry the opposite sex. it happens as a cover.
What is your point. It's sad that they have to because of your book of fairy tales.

Where did I say I hate homosexuals? Proof? momosexuality is a form of racism? LOL LOL I have stated that being homosexual is a choice many times. no homosexual gene. Why would God create what He prohibits? perfectly logical. You just refuse to accept the truth.
You have stated it without evidence. There is no gene but there are triggers, explaining biology to you however is a lost cause. Also I don't know why your god would... Fruit from the tree of knowladge of good and evil.

your premise would dictate that anyone who has sinned cannot marry. LOL LOL
Yep, seems fair. You are holding up one sin, I hold all the others.

You can use that verse to justify your homosexuality, but no one is born that way!
Say it some more, but without evidence you are blowing hot air.

you really should think through your thoughts before you post!
I would say the same, but you are reading yours off some christian web site.

Offline fish

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2014, 12:50:49 AM »
nope again. I gave many proofs. you were obviously too lazy to read them. The bible is also a factual source. you can choose to dismiss it , but you would be wrong....again!

the posts and links are there. you are just to lazy to reread them because they disproved your point.

prove your premise of eunuchs.
this may help you understand a little better why you are wrong....againhttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eunuch

If their chosen behavior is normal, why hide it?

Unlike you, I have given many proofs. You cannot disprove them and cannot prove homosexuals are born that way. you have now admitted science has not proven homosexuals are born that way.

Show me where I have stated I hate homosexuals! another lie.
the "triggers" lead to a choice. people are not born criminals, but there are triggers that make them commit crimes. Try again! LOL LOL

which sin are you holding up? We commit many sins daily, even you!

you are the one stating Matthew 19:11-12 says we are all born homosexual. You can twist those verses all you want to justify your homosexuality, but that is not what the verses say. read it again. Matt chptr 19: 1-12 is about divorce.

a link you won't like or probably won't read.  http://www.citizenlink.com/2010/06/14/are-people-really-born-gay/

I don't need a Christian website to quote truth and logic. many of the sites you read have proven that homos are not born. That is why you admitted the fact homos are not born. if they are not born, the only logical explanation is being homo is a choice.

the topic is about religious freedom , not if people are born homo or not. start another thread.

Offline Racer

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2014, 02:22:32 AM »
nope again. I gave many proofs. you were obviously too lazy to read them. The bible is also a factual source. you can choose to dismiss it , but you would be wrong....again!

the posts and links are there. you are just to lazy to reread them because they disproved your point.

prove your premise of eunuchs.
this may help you understand a little better why you are wrong....againhttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eunuch

If their chosen behavior is normal, why hide it?

Unlike you, I have given many proofs. You cannot disprove them and cannot prove homosexuals are born that way. you have now admitted science has not proven homosexuals are born that way.

Show me where I have stated I hate homosexuals! another lie.
the "triggers" lead to a choice. people are not born criminals, but there are triggers that make them commit crimes. Try again! LOL LOL

which sin are you holding up? We commit many sins daily, even you!

you are the one stating Matthew 19:11-12 says we are all born homosexual. You can twist those verses all you want to justify your homosexuality, but that is not what the verses say. read it again. Matt chptr 19: 1-12 is about divorce.

a link you won't like or probably won't read.  http://www.citizenlink.com/2010/06/14/are-people-really-born-gay/

I don't need a Christian website to quote truth and logic. many of the sites you read have proven that homos are not born. That is why you admitted the fact homos are not born. if they are not born, the only logical explanation is being homo is a choice.

the topic is about religious freedom , not if people are born homo or not. start another thread.




Thank goodness the Arizona Gov vetoed the bill. 

Offline fish

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2014, 03:00:08 AM »
it won't go away. there are 49 other states.

those that didn't read the bill zero in on it as anti gay. not necessarily. a person that doesn't accept false marriage based on their religious beliefs are not the only ones that would be able to hold to their religious beliefs. would a muslim with a catering business be forced to cater a ham dinner? no, the bill would protect them.

again, the 1.7 % of the US population that id's as homo is being treated as a majority group.

Offline ebilly99

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2014, 03:04:00 AM »
nope again. I gave many proofs. you were obviously too lazy to read them. The bible is also a factual source. you can choose to dismiss it , but you would be wrong....again!
Bible FACTUAL... Can I use the Quran then, or how about Pinocchio.

the posts and links are there. you are just to lazy to reread them because they disproved your point.
Your links are right wing christian sponsered.

prove your premise of eunuchs.
this may help you understand a little better why you are wrong....againhttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eunuch
If you can't figure it out, I don't know how to explain. Critical thinking time... Try to keep up. There was a Eunuch who neutered himself... Why would he do that? For the kingdom of god of course. But why would this be important? Well lust wouldn't be a problem because you could always get a slave girl. There would only be one reason that I can think of that a person would lose there boys... Can you think of any?

If their chosen behavior is normal, why hide it?
Because people want to hurt them. People want to separate them and tell them they are going to hell.

Unlike you, I have given many proofs. You cannot disprove them and cannot prove homosexuals are born that way. you have now admitted science has not proven homosexuals are born that way.
I have given you evidence that there is more estrogen during repeated male birth's and that those that are homosexual seem to have a higher estrogen count. No I can't prove, but the evidence points that way. 

Show me where I have stated I hate homosexuals! another lie.
When one calls them Obominations and treats them as less than humans.
the "triggers" lead to a choice. people are not born criminals, but there are triggers that make them commit crimes. Try again! LOL LOL
The trigger is usually puberty, and one seems to be attracted to one sex or another without any triggers. 

which sin are you holding up? We commit many sins daily, even you!
I do not believe in your god, nor am I tied to your sins. However I have regrets, and they are far worse then your childish sins. A regret can never be washed away, it can never be forgotten.

you are the one stating Matthew 19:11-12 says we are all born homosexual. You can twist those verses all you want to justify your homosexuality, but that is not what the verses say. read it again. Matt chptr 19: 1-12 is about divorce.
twisting bible verses, I learn from the best.

a link you won't like or probably won't read.  http://www.citizenlink.com/2010/06/14/are-people-really-born-gay/Focus on the family. Next do you want me to read about the health of tobacco from the Marlboro man?

I don't need a Christian website to quote truth and logic. many of the sites you read have proven that homos are not born. That is why you admitted the fact homos are not born. if they are not born, the only logical explanation is being homo is a choice.

the topic is about religious freedom , not if people are born homo or not. start another thread.

Offline Hi

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2014, 03:17:16 AM »
Lets be real here....the bill would cause chaos....everyone siting religious beliefs as to why people cant do anything.............practice your religion all you want but in public places you must adhere to everyone else and the law.

Offline Hi

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2014, 03:20:10 AM »
Although i do think it would be funny if the bill passed countrywide and then the government outlawed christians from walking on public streets siting religion.

Offline Hi

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2014, 03:20:46 AM »
cuz you know obama is a muslim and wants to destroy the country thing........

Offline fish

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2014, 03:40:55 AM »
still the epitome of stupidity! LOL LOL at least you are consistent!

go ahead and use the quran! LOL LOL what do the muslims think of queers? They get executed quite often!

the homo lifestyle is an abomination! the homo lifestyle is disgusting. maybe you think screwing a sewer pipe is arousing, most don't. Prove I treated homos as less then human Proof? More lies! LOL LOL
I state the verses in context to the entire section. not 1or 2 that are twisted to try and make a point.

and still again, no proofs . just lip service as usual.

one seems to be attracted.. not exactly evidence. just another unfounded guess! LOL LOL

you prove time and time again you are too lazy to read, or afraid to because your points are disproven. focus on the info not the source. the 1 or 2 websites you listed are 100% accurate? LOL LOL

any website I list that disproves your hoakum you will try to discredit. being conservative or Christian sponsored is just another lame excuse you have for not refuting it with facts.

With God, there are no regrets. With Jesus, there arte no sins to be tied to. live a wasted life if you choose, but the very God, Jesus, and bible you mock, is your salvation. if you are happy being stupid so be it.

it is also clear you didn't read senate bill 1062. so much for being informed before you debate an issue.

 if you want to discuss your gay choice start another thread. this one is about religious freedom.

Offline ebilly99

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2014, 03:54:29 AM »
still the epitome of stupidity! LOL LOL at least you are consistent!
Why debate when you can insult.

go ahead and use the quran! LOL LOL what do the muslims think of queers? They get executed quite often!
Not getting irony, but I also said Pinocchio so... Are you having a problem overcoming your baser instincts and becoming a "real person"

the homo lifestyle is an abomination!
Abomination. The word abomination comes from the Old French word abominacion meaning "horror, repugnance, disgust." The word abomination can also be used to refer to a person or object you find utterly loathsome and repellent. If you look at someone else as an abomination, that means you are horrified by them, and barely even think they're human. If you hear a friend describing you as an abomination behind your back, you need to find a new buddy right away! I think this proves you hate homosexuals.
the homo lifestyle is disgusting. maybe you think screwing a sewer pipe is arousing, most don't. Prove I treated homos as less then human Proof? More lies! LOL LOL
You limit there rights, call them vile creatures. Yep just humanitarian of the year here. If you do not treat someone as a equal in all things than how are they being treated as a human.
I state the verses in context to the entire section. not 1or 2 that are twisted to try and make a point.

and still again, no proofs . just lip service as usual.
Estrogen... Yep ignore science. You do that well.

one seems to be attracted.. not exactly evidence. just another unfounded guess! LOL LOL
How so?

you prove time and time again you are too lazy to read, or afraid to because your points are disproven. focus on the info not the source. the 1 or 2 websites you listed are 100% accurate? LOL LOL
Lets do that. The scientist who did the experiment said that this was not proof that a homosexual could change, but instead that Bi sexuals could identifiy with Hetrosexual needs. Yeah the source is important because Focus on the family are Notorious liars.

any website I list that disproves your hoakum you will try to discredit.
No find one that is peer reviewed and I will give it the time of day .
being conservative or Christian sponsored is just another lame excuse you have for not refuting it with facts.
Wouldn't have to be if they told the truth.

With God, there are no regrets. With Jesus, there arte no sins to be tied to. live a wasted life if you choose, but the very God, Jesus, and bible you mock, is your salvation. if you are happy being stupid so be it
No regrets... Except those millions of sins you commit every second of every day. Regrets help you grow, regrets help you evolve.
.

it is also clear you didn't read senate bill 1062. so much for being informed before you debate an issue.

 if you want to discuss your gay choice start another thread. this one is about religious freedom.
My gay choice... I am not gay, however I am a human who want's everyone to be equal. I love my neighbor like myself. Funny I keep the Golden rule better than you.



Also FYI, I was the one brought into this by name. You were the one who brought up gay marriage. I haven't brought up anything... So take your Racism elsewhere

Offline Hi

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2014, 04:16:44 AM »
forgive him ebilly he knows not even his own religion

Offline fish

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Re: what happened to religious freedom?
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2014, 04:20:19 AM »
you were mentioned by mark, you chose to put yourself into this thread.

homosexuality fits the abomination term perfectly.
 just because you disagree with the source doesn't make the info wrong. again, just lip service, no proof! LOL LOL

you demand a website face a peer review? LOL LOL all that is, is an opinion of the panel! LOL LOL

how do you know you practice the golden rule better than I? That is out of the bible, you don't believe in :a book of fables" ! LOL LOL

millions of sins committed every second of everyday? LOL LOL a bit of an exaggeration? LOL LOL

your entire post lacks any sign of intelligent thinking. no proofs of substance. You sure you are in college?. no proofs,  you serve the same purpose as an empty can! LOL LOL LOL LOL

the topic is religious freedom.