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Author Topic: A Quiz  (Read 3792 times)

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Offline matrsnot

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A Quiz
« on: September 20, 2007, 12:18:46 PM »

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Here's a Little History Quiz
See if you can guess WHO made each of the following remarks, and when?   Then scroll down for the answer.Don't peek until you've tried to guess.)

'We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.'

It's time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the few, by the few, and for the few, and to replace it with shared responsibility for shared prosperity.

'(We) can't just let business as usual go on, and that means something has to be taken away from some people.

'We have to build a political consensus, and that requires people to give up a little bit of their own turf in order to create this common ground

certainly think the free-market has failed.

'I think it's time to send a clear message to what has become the most profitable sector in (the) entire economy - that they are being watched.'
Now you might think these were the famous words of the Father ofcommunism, Karl Marx
And you would be on the right track in thinking so
But you would be wrong
These pearls of socialist/Marxist wisdom are from non other than our very own, home-grown Marxist. .
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Hillary Clinton[/color]
Comments made on:
(1) 6/29/04
(2) 5/29/07
(3) 6/4/07
(4) 6/4/07
(5) 6/4/07
(6) 9/2/05

[/color]
Be afraid, Be very afraid!![/color]

Offline blissfullybusy

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2007, 02:43:08 PM »
yep always knew I didn't care for her.
Women are Angels

And when someone breaks our wings....

We simply continue to fly.........on a broomstick...

Because we are flexible like that

Offline fish

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2007, 12:06:45 AM »
I wonder if she will try to tie gun control with healthcare like bubba tried in 1993?

Offline kbohon

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2007, 12:11:57 AM »
Well, I passed. Now my question is, what is really wrong with the statements? Would you say that a person who is getting a $53 gazillion a year bonus for spending two days a year as a board member of a corporation deserves it and should keep it, while a single parent holds two jobs and can't take his or her child to the doctor?

At least examine the context of her statements before passing judgment!!
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2007, 12:36:37 PM »
Sorry.  In her case, my judgement was passed a long time ago.

Offline Coyote

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2007, 12:49:30 PM »
Well, my husband and I both work, and each have military retirement and free (aside from Prime payment) medical from serving.  I don't see where we (at about $90,000 a year) should be taxed more to pay for other peoples medical.  We struggled to get where we are and yes, I worked 2 jobs for 12 years.  So Hillary would like to see the poor get a break while we are made to pay.  Not fair.  Sure that won't negatively effect the rich...only the middle class.
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline kbohon

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2007, 02:06:06 PM »
I don't like her healthcare plan, either. I don't think it will pass in any case. But I do like the idea of getting something together that will make it more likely for children to have healthcare rather than being punished for their parents' failures. If they don't get such basic needs met while they're young, I believe they'll mostly wind up just like those parents.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2007, 03:21:01 PM »
wanting healthcare for children is admirable, but if taking care of thier children isn't motivation enough for the parents to quit being failures maybe thier status as parents should be changed.

I'm tired of paying for others quality of life:

1. taxes for food stamps

2. taxes for welfare

3. taxes for WIC

4. taxes for training programs for better job skills (not sure how many actually use the skills to get bettter jobs)

5. taxes for health care

6. taxes for low income housing

7. taxes for education (if they are recieving the above they most likely are not paying mush in taxex so I have to pay more)

8. taxes for roads for them to drive on (again do not pay thier share so I pay more)

9. taxes for free school lunch program

10. taxes for public defenders when they get in trouble with the law

I'm sure there's many more, but I think it would be cheaper if I just adopted thier children.

sorry for the rant but I can't stand people thinking it is thier right to be taken care of by others when it obvious they don't attempt to take care of themselves.
 

edit:  after thinking a little more, maybe these people are smarter than I am since they are getting everyone else to pay for thier existance

Offline Coyote

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2007, 03:41:03 PM »
You hit the nail on the head.
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline kbohon

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2007, 11:51:36 PM »
It's the flip side of the corporatocracy that we see on the other side of politics. The amount we pay for that stuff is pretty high, I agree. But the ridiculous amounts of profits that corporate CEOs pocket as a result of tax loopholes for corporations, business owners, and investors costs us a whole lot more.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fish

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2007, 01:08:23 AM »
corporations don't pay taxes we do. their taxes are factored into the price, and profits are distibuted to the shareholders in the form of dividends. Who pays taxes on dividends? It is a  smart move.
Healthcare should be offered by a company as an incentive to attract the best workers. No business and certainly not the government should be obligated to provide healthcare plans. If the government wanted to get serious about healthcare, why are military retirees paying for it if they want access?
Study the current talks between GM and the uaw. Healthcare for employees and retirees is a hot item.

Offline kbohon

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2007, 02:27:52 AM »
A small business owner is hardly able to compete with a GM. And as far as paying taxes, you made my point for me. The Republicans ensure that they don't pay that much in taxes. Government rewards business, and puts the burden on the individuals. THAT is what the Republican party stands for. So when people gripe about paying taxes to have socially beneficial programs, it makes me wonder why they are complaining when they're supporting the party that KEEPS the burden on the individual rather than on the profit margins.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2007, 02:30:08 AM »
But if taxes were levied on that profit margin, the corporations would pass it along to the customer in the form of higher prices just like the do increased fuel costs or any other increased cost.
    "Hey, hey, hey, hey now.  Don't be mean.  We don't have to be mean. because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are."      - The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai across The Eighth Dimension

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2007, 02:35:12 AM »
well I don't know about you or anyone else but I don't have any corporations or business of any kind forcing me to use thier product or service. I do however, have the goverment forcing me to pay them so smoeone else can use thier services and benefits.  I really don't care how much or how little someone else makes for the work they do, as long as I am not the one providing for them.

qoute from kbohn:

It's the flip side of the corporatocracy that we see on the other side of politics. The amount we pay for that stuff is pretty high, I agree. But the ridiculous amounts of profits that corporate CEOs pocket as a result of tax loopholes for corporations, business owners, and investors costs us a whole lot more.

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2007, 02:38:25 AM »
Eeyore is is correct on that

Offline kbohon

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2007, 06:21:13 AM »
Yes, but as you yourself said armyguy, at least you have a choice in the matter of whether to buy or not.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fish

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2007, 02:58:46 PM »
 So what if the gop is pro business. why should success be punished? When was the last time a democrat made a tax cut?
Anytime a cost increases to a business, the price goes up.always been that way.
 

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2007, 04:05:55 PM »
kbohn, my point is I don't have a choice I pay for taxes to support other people, well maybe I do have a choice, that would be not to earn any money and live off other peoples taxes.

Offline kbohon

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2007, 08:33:15 PM »
Armyguy, I know it takes taxes to support socially based programs, and none of us likes the idea that our money is being used for people who don't deserve it.

But at the same time, if corporations were taxed on their profit margins at a rate that's consistent with individuals who are taxed, the savings could be tremendous in our personal taxes paid. Yes, the additional taxes to corporations would result in higher costs of products and services instead, but it would give you a choice that you otherwise don't have.

The answer lies in between the two extremes, in my opinion. If you read up on financial wealth, you'll learn that the best way to get rich is to use the tax loopholes that are in place for real estate investors and business owners. I can say that I have benefitted from these loopholes myself. And I will keep on doing so, but then I came from a different background, where my neighbors and even me for a while, had welfare, food stamps, etc. I've seen the benefits and abuses on both sides of the coin, and hope we can find a way to offset individual's contributions with corporate taxation, while keeping some programs (with reasonable limitations) that give people an opportunity that they otherwise might not have.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2007, 10:21:02 PM »
kbohn,

my opinion is "social programs" need to be reduced to bare minium(only those disabled or incapicitated recieve).  Its been my experiance that most people are more motivated if they have to "do something" before they "recieve something".

One of the reasons are "social programs" have gotten so out of hand is the "he/she is getting something for nothing, so I should too" additude of our society.

I believe that most people currently recieving welfare and food stamps could have a better standard of living if they went and got a used lawn mower and mowed yards.  Plus they would also probabally have better self esteem that would allow them to better thier situation even more. When I was in school (1970's) I had a friend that made 12k every year from 7th to 12th grade mowing lawns. His dad let him use his push mower to start the first year, it was only about a month and a half before gave it back and had is own rider and push mower (quite a feat for a 13 year old).

Maybe my opinion comes from being raised to believe that recieving welfare and/or food stamps was bad, and should be avoided.

Taxing business will only lead to fewer jobs and higher prices. Ever tax I have ever paid in business has been passed on to my customers.  I doubt if there are any sucessful business that is not the same.

Offline fish

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2007, 03:00:26 AM »
The tax breaks you use should be available to everyone K. Background doesn't add entitlements. The evil oil companies reinvest half of their profits. What will happen if those are taxed ? Businesses, especially small businesses, are the one's that need the tax breaks. A resturaunt on average , has a 5% profit margin. Taxing any profit margin will cut jobs, raise prices, or both. The taking from the few for the welfare of the many has proven historically not to work. look how well it worked in russia.

Offline kbohon

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2007, 03:29:11 AM »
Armyguy, I agree with your post completely. I don't know the answer that meets all needs, but I do know that when I was working full time and a single parent of 3, getting no child support, I had to go on welfare for several months because I couldn't make the rent and buy groceries after paying for childcare while I worked. I made more money by not working. That was right before Clinton got into welfare reform, and I thought it was a great idea to place limits on how long someone can receive aid, etc. I joined the Army and gave custody of my girls to my ex in order to get off welfare and make a real change, but that had drawbacks too. I can't tell you how often people said I'd abandoned my children and similar remarks.

Fish, it doesn't have to be all/nothing. If restaurants average a 5% profit margin, then maybe they should be excluded. But if you have CEOs taking home five million dollar bonuses, which are not taxed, then something is wrong.

Did you know that if you buy an investment property and later resell it for a profit, you do not have to pay capital gains on the profit if you complete a 1031b exchange? You can do this over and over again, delaying the tax due until you die, and then you can donate the property to a charitable organization that also won't pay tax on it. In the meantime, the income the properties have earned have provided a lot of revenue for you, and you haven't paid a dime of tax as a result.

As a person who owns my business as a corporation, I think I paid less than $2,000 last year in income tax because I am allowed to deduct so many of my expenses. This amounted to less than 5% of my gross income. I don't even take all the deductions because I don't like keeping track of so much, but the average person cannot do that. They're out there paying 15-25% of their earnings to the government.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2007, 05:00:58 AM »
kbohn, thats one of the problems with welfare you shouldn't be able to get more than if you are working.  The logical thing in situation form what you said would have been to help with child care so you could work. Why couldn't they do that?  But people who use welfare for a few months or even a year are not the problem, I know of familys that have used welfare and food stamps as thier primary source of income for 3 generations.  If it wasn't available to them they probabally would have kept some of the jobs they had over the years instead of having anthoer kid so they could get back on the welfare rolls.

Offline kbohon

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2007, 05:20:36 AM »
Yeah, I have known people like that, too. (I worked with a girl who had a baby, and lived with her mom. She was 17, and collecting welfare while getting paid in cash at the job. Her mother collected welfare, too, and so did her sister, who also had a child. They all lived in a three bedroom apartment.)

I hated the idea of being on welfare, and my earnings were more than I got paid. The difference was the savings on child care.

I personally believe if we had better financial education in schools, started at an earlier age, it would make a difference. I took "consumer math" after flunking geometry. I learned how to balance a checkbook, calculate interest, etc. but it was so basic it bored me to tears. These things should be taught to 4th graders, and by the time a kid's in 6th grade, they should be experimenting with small investments, say $5 a month required from the parents, and invested in a mini-mutual fund or money market account until they graduate high school. $360 invested that way would be $468 if it earned 8% (assuming summer months continued the investments) and not only would it be a nice little something at graduation, but it would be $108 that they didn't have to work to earn, and earned on money that wouldn't have been missed anyway.

I always made my kids put half their earnings into savings, but if there was a program like this, I'd have made them use it instead. I think it would be so much better for teaching kids about money than something that earns them $4 a year in interest.

Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2007, 05:36:56 AM »
totally agree with teaching it in school, through my years in the army I couldn't count the number of soldiers I had teach how to keep track of thier finances ...... I actually had one 18 yr old private that thought if he used a check from the back of his check book the bank wouldn't post it to his account untill all the lower numbered checks came in.

Offline kbohon

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2007, 06:31:58 AM »
Oh, wow. Bet he got a surprise or two along the way! He'd be the kind of guy to have the "What do you mean I'm overdrawn? I still have checks left!" bumper sticker on his car.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fish

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2007, 12:53:48 AM »
How are those bonus's not taxed? Their salary is approved by the shareholders. Pay for performance. I think pay and bonus's will be scrutinized more by shareholders. The ceo's have a responsibility to the shareholders. if they show a good gain they should be rewarded,if not they should be penalized. The penalized part doesn't seem to happen though, except firings at times.
Taxing profits is a bad move. it erases a lot of options for the business owner with less capital to invest.

Offline kbohon

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2007, 01:36:44 AM »
Fish, the shareholders rarely say what the bonus will be. At least, not in any of the corporations I've owned stock in, like WalMart, Coach, Southwest Gas, Yahoo, or Nissan. Now maybe I bought in too late to see that happen, but I never got a say in raising/lowering it, either. The only thing that came up along those lines had to do with the number of insider shares to be awarded.

Taxing profits would lead to fewer profits and slower growth, which would expand opportunities for other businesses to get created and therefore, job growth and higher GDP.

Pay for performance is normally called "Salary." And those CEOs have pretty damn good salaries, too. The bonuses are just outrageous. I mean, five years' salary for getting fired? Come on! Who is kidding who?
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fish

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2007, 01:46:10 AM »
So you would be willing to slow the economy,limit opportunities for growth for the common good? slow growth to expand? Why would anyone want to start a business if they will be punished for success?
Many of those ceos deserve what they are paid. but getting a bonus when fired is rediculous.

Offline kbohon

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Re: A Quiz
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2007, 01:50:49 AM »
It would slow growth for a given company, but would create other opportunities at the same time, which would be better for the "common" good but less desirable than the very elite few currently have.

It would not punish success, it would just redefine success. I mean the difference between earning $15 million and $13 million a year is not even noticeable to someone in that earning bracket, but a hundred of those changes every year would make a significant difference to the guy who spends 40-50 hours a week at a blue collar job.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.