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Author Topic: great way for congress to support the troops eh?  (Read 4881 times)

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Offline fish

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great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« on: November 29, 2007, 02:18:24 AM »

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[color=black size]Army Issues Instructions to Prepare for Funding Shortfall[/color]
Army Public Affairs ^ | Nov 28, 2007 | Army Public Affairs
WASHINGTON (Nov. 28, 2007) - The Army announced today that it has taken initial steps to plan for reduced operations at all Army bases while the congressional review continues on funding for operations in Afghanistan, Iraq, and requirements associated with the Global War on Terror. With no funds provided for GWOT requirements since the beginning of the fiscal year, the Army has had to use operation and maintenance dollars budgeted to organize, train, equip, and field forces, as well to sustain Soldiers and their Families, to fund war related activities. Gen. Richard A. Cody, vice chief of staff of the Army, directed all Army commanders and agency directors in a Nov. 26 memorandum to begin planning for reduced Army-wide operations. The memo instructs Army leaders to review all operations, and to make plans to minimize OMA-funded activities not required to protect the life, health and safety of occupants of Army installations, or required to maintain assets vital to the national defense. Detailed reports of this review and planning effort by installation commanders are due back to Gen. Cody by December 4. The Army expects to exhaust all operation and maintenance funds by Feb. 23, even after considering a request by DoD to move over $4 billion from Navy and Air Force personnel accounts and the Army's working capital fund. Gen. Cody directed Army commanders to be prepared to: "warm base" all Army installations and commands to minimal essential levels; furlough Army Civilians after mid-February; curtail or suspend contract expenditures; and discontinue all routine operations funded by OMA dollars. "We are only in the prudent planning phase," Gen. Cody emphasized today. "We have been told by DoD to plan for and be prepared to execute these necessary actions. It is an imperative of the senior Army leadership that our Army, especially while at war, understands the budget process, the decisions being made and any potential impacts on the total Army family." For example, Gen. Cody noted, per current labor agreements and to provide some predictability to the civilian workforce, supervisors would have to begin notifying Army Civilians of any impending February furloughs by mid-December. "These in extremis planning actions are absolutely necessary given the uncertain GWOT funding," Gen. Cody said. "We will do everything we can to minimize the turbulence for our Soldiers, Civilians and their Families."

Offline kbohon

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 02:39:45 AM »
If I buy beer for an alcoholic, am I supporting him? If I refuse and refer him to AA, am I failing to support him?

If it's not working, but we keep contributing to it, then we're not doing the soldiers or anyone else any favors. Let's stop building up their country while ours gets hurt by hurricanes, major housing problems, and overseas debts and rechannel the moneys back to ourselves.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fish

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 03:02:30 AM »
We can't prevent hurricanes.
The government isn't to blame for people buying more house than they can afford. there is no housing shortage
In case you missed it K, the surge is working. Shutting off funds will cost lives. Go back to 1975 and look what happened when funds were shut off for the vietnam war. Pol Pot ring a bell?

Offline kbohon

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 03:19:28 AM »
1. Never said there was a housing shortage. Quite the opposite, in fact. There's a glut of houses, a major banking crisis, and a recession waiting in the wings.

2. I don't much care what happens over there if our people here aren't doing so hot. I am not being callous, just protective of our own.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fish

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 03:46:45 AM »
It's the government's fault there is a glut of houses? For banks making bad decisions?
Our people are getting the job done. casualties(both military and civilian) are way down. iraqi refugees are being bussed back from syria
the gloom and doom predictions ain't happening.
Markets go up AND down, no matter what the economy is doing.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2007, 01:32:43 PM »
Recessions come and go too.  It is a cycle.  Congress has failed miserably to support the soldiers on the battlefield and will now take it out on the civilians working to support the troops too.  Pelosi is a POS as well as POS Reid.  These people will cost many lives due to poor training, equipment and shortage of same in the combat zone.  What next?  Will Congress vote to quit paying the soldiers and retirees?  This congress desperately WANTS this effort to fail and the surge is working.  Without failure in Iraq, the dems may not have a foothold to the presidency and we can't have that can we?

Offline Just_a_Biker

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2007, 07:41:21 PM »
If I buy beer for an alcoholic, am I supporting him? If I refuse and refer him to AA, am I failing to support him?

If it's not working, but we keep contributing to it, then we're not doing the soldiers or anyone else any favors. Let's stop building up their country while ours gets hurt by hurricanes, major housing problems, and overseas debts and re-channel the moneys back to ourselves.

What's not working?  Would you rather re-channel the money back here to the US so we can rebuild from another September 11th?  Because if we pull out now, that's exactly what's going to happen...

1. Never said there was a housing shortage. Quite the opposite, in fact. There's a glut of houses, a major banking crisis, and a recession waiting in the wings.

2. I don't much care what happens over there if our people here aren't doing so hot. I am not being callous, just protective of our own.

If you were truly being protective of our own you would see the need for us to FINISH what we started.  Pulling out isn't going to help.  Congress withholding funding for the war is only going to break the bank that much faster...  Look at the population here at FLW.  What do you think is going to happen to the civilian workforce here if the Army starts laying people off and not paying contractors?  Do you realize how many people in Pulaski county alone will be affected?  You think this war is driving us into a recession?  Pull operational funding from the Services to be diverted to the war effort because Congress is throwing a temper tantrum and see what happens...  We won't be in a recession; we'll be on the brink of a DEPRESSION!!  This is the exact same thing we argued about last week in another thread (http://columbialodging.net/smf/index.php?topic=5535.0), nothing has changed in the past week...  If our politicians want to run a war they should have enlisted or become officers in the US Military.  But, most of them are too cowardly to do that, so they run for office instead, and try to tell our Military Leaders how to do their jobs. 
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. Cicero - 55 BC, Rome

Offline fish

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2007, 01:07:04 AM »
It is too bad congress's pay can't be docked to fund the army until the bill is passed.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2007, 03:53:55 AM »
I did hear tonight on the radio that if a military spending bill does not go through, Government jobs could be at risk----- Hmmmmmmm. . . congress is a government job, isn't it ;)



(yes, I know all to well what they meant - but was just thinking)

It is too bad congress's pay can't be docked to fund the army until the bill is passed.
    "Hey, hey, hey, hey now.  Don't be mean.  We don't have to be mean. because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are."      - The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai across The Eighth Dimension

Offline kbohon

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2007, 06:48:12 AM »
What's not working?  Would you rather re-channel the money back here to the US so we can rebuild from another September 11th?  Because if we pull out now, that's exactly what's going to happen...
What is? I'd really like to know. Because all I've seen is media spin in both directions. I have yet to get a solid answer to the questions I have asked: How will we measure that the work is done? What are the goals, exactly?

If you were truly being protective of our own you would see the need for us to FINISH what we started.  Pulling out isn't going to help.  Congress withholding funding for the war is only going to break the bank that much faster...  Look at the population here at FLW.  What do you think is going to happen to the civilian workforce here if the Army starts laying people off and not paying contractors?  Do you realize how many people in Pulaski county alone will be affected?  You think this war is driving us into a recession?  Pull operational funding from the Services to be diverted to the war effort because Congress is throwing a temper tantrum and see what happens...  We won't be in a recession; we'll be on the brink of a DEPRESSION!!  This is the exact same thing we argued about last week in another thread (http://columbialodging.net/smf/index.php?topic=5535.0), nothing has changed in the past week...  If our politicians want to run a war they should have enlisted or become officers in the US Military.  But, most of them are too cowardly to do that, so they run for office instead, and try to tell our Military Leaders how to do their jobs. 
 
It's true that pulling out would result in a lot of layoffs. Then again, it just might put technology and manufacturing back in the spotlight and kick start our badly suffering GNP. I use the word recession just as the media does - interchangeably with depression. We're there NOW. And the war is a big contributor to that, like it or not. The biggest scams in the history of the Presidency are going on, and while it might benefit a few in the short run, it will hurt the many over the long term.
I would not oppose our involvement there if we had clear and definable goals, and better oversight of how the moneys are being spent. But with those two key ingredients missing as they are, I will stick with the position I posted above.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline sway-

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2007, 10:07:44 AM »
wow no one sees how bad the economy is? that is why there are million houses for sale because people can't afford to live in them because of the crap economy. and for the record i DO support congress on this move.
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Offline matrsnot

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2007, 06:24:31 PM »
I cannot support congress.  The opposite of progress you know.  They are the ones that fail to come to the table and compromise.  Again, I will say that the dems are determined to make the Iraq War a failure for their own political purposes.  Determined is the word to watch. They want absolute power to make this a socialist republic.  Hope they don't try it in my lifetime. 

Offline kbohon

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2007, 06:26:21 PM »
Matrsnot, did I just read you saying that Congress isn't compromising? Is the implication that Bush is?
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2007, 09:25:12 PM »
The implication as that BOTH are unwilling to compromise.  The congress is willing to send the economy and our soldiers to Hell just to make Bush look bad, in view of the fact the surge IS working.  Just that Congress is more unwilling to compormise.  Bush has asked them to come to the table before and they won't come unless promises are made ahead of time.  The real traitors are the congress.  Without implication, the entire population of politicians in Washington are traitors.  Both sides of the table.  They are going to socialize this republic.  Remember this country is a Republic.  So was the USSR.  Welcome to the Socialist States of America.

Offline Coyote

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2007, 09:26:09 PM »
Exactly...well said Matrsnot.
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline 02Tundra

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2007, 09:26:53 PM »
A great example of the Dems support is Bill Clinton's recent statement that he never supported the invasion of Iraq.  Then you look back at his past statements and he was all for it!  I've gotten pretty sick of hearing these damn liberals spouting how they never supported the invasion, but most of them voted to give Bush the authority to do just that.  They are determined to see the U.S. fail in Iraq, because they hate Bush!  I just hope more citizen's realize this before Nov 08.

Offline kbohon

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2007, 10:09:58 PM »
Ok, so please, again I ask.... Define what the objectives are and how we are measuring that this surge is working.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2007, 12:13:16 AM »
Look at the downward trend in general violence and the number of deaths of our soldiers.  The Iraqi's are slowly taking over security of their country.  Common Sense.  Of course we will keep a foothold in the region.  Just like we did in Germany, Korea.  It strengthens our forward lines and keeps most conflicts out of our borders.  Again, common sense.  At least to me it is.

Offline fish

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2007, 03:57:19 AM »
sway, those people bought more house than they could afford. the banks loosened the rules for many of them to qualify for loans they otherwise would not get. the economy is still strong.

Offline fish

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2007, 04:02:19 AM »
a regime change to allow iraqi's freedom to govern themselves. wmd WAS found and eliminated. Provide the stability for the form ing of a government of the iraqi's choice. Reconciliation has been occuring. more of a bottom up pattern where the locals are cooperating with each other. this is moving up where the different sects are cooperating. the sects are the ones help to rid the country of al queda. W was right all along and it is a Bush that is cleaning up after a clinton, much to the chagrin of the dems.

Offline kbohon

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2007, 04:25:05 AM »
Look at the downward trend in general violence and the number of deaths of our soldiers.  The Iraqi's are slowly taking over security of their country.  Common Sense.  Of course we will keep a foothold in the region.  Just like we did in Germany, Korea.  It strengthens our forward lines and keeps most conflicts out of our borders.  Again, common sense.  At least to me it is.
a regime change to allow iraqi's freedom to govern themselves. wmd WAS found and eliminated. Provide the stability for the form ing of a government of the iraqi's choice. Reconciliation has been occuring. more of a bottom up pattern where the locals are cooperating with each other. this is moving up where the different sects are cooperating. the sects are the ones help to rid the country of al queda. W was right all along and it is a Bush that is cleaning up after a clinton, much to the chagrin of the dems.

Ok, if I accept that this is an actuality rather than a numbers game, then you appear to be saying that the objectives are:

1. To allow Iraq to govern themselves.
2. To decrease violence.

The problem I have with that is that it's a slippery slope yet again. Is Iraq governing themselves when the eliminate 100% of all terrorism? When they eliminate 100% of mosque attacks? Or is 30% reduction sufficient? When they support themselves economically? How do you measure that the job is done? When we decide it's time to head to Iran, perhaps? When we control the oil?

2. See #1.

There is no measurable objective that I can see. Without that, it's reasonable to question our purpose for being there and wanting to know at what point we can stop spending $140 billion plus per year and bring our loved ones home. Failing that, hell yes, push for them to stop now and realign the priorities.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2007, 12:02:58 PM »
I believe the Crusades were fought for much the same reasons and they had the same objectives.  Jihad is alive and well.  I would just as soon fight the war overseas as here in our country.  Yes we are fighting something here I don't agree with....a concept.  We are fast heading for socialization/fascism and the power seekers are controlling it all.  FDR sold this country to the banks many years ago.  They now have controlling interest in our government and they will decide when the war should end, not congress or the president. 

Offline kbohon

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2007, 06:33:03 PM »
We're heading for socialization regardless of political party in charge. As far as the banks controlling things, if we hit hard economic times as I believe we starting to see, while we endure the transitions to NAU and the Amero, it will be interesting to see what becomes of the federal banks. They have more power than the president and congress, yes, but they could stop the war w/o the bank's approval. The bank could end the deadlock between those entities, though.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fish

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2007, 06:45:12 PM »
you know things are going well in iraq when the msm hardly reprts anything about the war.

Offline sway-

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2007, 11:16:16 AM »
Are economy is going strong huh ? You really call this a good economy ? Well nicely put if this economy is soo good why do we pay 3 dollars a gallon for gas,if this economy is so good why do we pay five dollars a gallon for milk ? Why can't people find jobs ? Why are ALL things being forclosed on ,not just homes ? Why is the govenrment laying people off ? Have you looked at our national defecit ? The economy is in one of the worst since the depression, you want to know how you can tell when the economy is going all down hill? The stock market goes down with it.
 
And just because no one reports on the war does not mean that things are going good over there. If you really want to know how the war is going why don't you ask a soldier that has just returned from iraq ?I think congress is making the right move to cut funds, i too see no progress being made, don't you think that would make the news ?
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Offline fish

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2007, 03:45:01 PM »
The price of gas is determined on the futures market. BUT if our democrat congress would allow drilling in anwr, we would have cheaper gas .
People get hired everyday. unemployment will always exist. The rate has stayed constant around 4.7% for several years now.
Who and why is the government laying off people?
Stock markets go up and down. it is a markey economy.It is back up over 13.000 again.  The economy is still strong,how else would people still be able to buy $3 gas. I don't see any airlines shut down. W even opened up military routes to ease congestion.
I have a son in law in the marines over there(again) right now. He said he is bored. He saw a lot of action the 1st time. I work with the military,many have just come back and have said progress has been made.
The progress that is being made is making the news,but the msm doesn't report much of it.
Casualties are way down for both the US and civilians.
Refugees are being bused back from syria. More provinces are self governing. they have scheduled flights out of bagdad and even their stock market has been operating for a while now. Is the job done? No. But our men and women can't finish the job if congress won't fund it. Read how vietnam ended.

Offline sway-

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2007, 04:01:23 PM »
The price of gas is determined on the futures market. BUT if our democrat congress would allow drilling in anwr, we would have cheaper gas .
This is not only the democrats,the republicans too,every since this "war" started gas prices have went up and down as much as the stock markert,if not more. With high gas prices this makes diseal prices also high and with that comes higher prices for food and other necessitys. When the the average american can barely afford to buy milk THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE ECONOMY.
People get hired everyday. unemployment will always exist. The rate has stayed constant around 4.7% for several years now.
BUT this rate is slowly rising,because the amount of people that are getting laid off with all the transfers of american jobs to other countries that do not have to pay as much.
Who and why is the government laying off people?
you must have missed this headline in the paper,DOD employees, budget cuts in the government are hurting the DOD employees they are going to get rid of a couple thousand at the start of the year.
Stock markets go up and down. it is a markey economy.It is back up over 13.000 again.  The economy is still strong,how else would people still be able to buy $3 gas. I don't see any airlines shut down. W even opened up military routes to ease congestion.
This is too has been in the headlines recently,many economist are worried about the stock market crashing because of its recent low. And i really don't think that people have a choice on the gas..you have to buy gas to get to work.
I have a son in law in the marines over there(again) right now. He said he is bored. He saw a lot of action the 1st time. I work with the military,many have just come back and have said progress has been made.
I have no comment on this it is rude and spiteful to say what i want and no feelings need to be hurt.
The progress that is being made is making the news,but the msm doesn't report much of it.
Casualties are way down for both the US and civilians.
hey this too is like the stock market,it also goes up in down varing by the month and the season...
Refugees are being bused back from syria. More provinces are self governing. they have scheduled flights out of bagdad and even their stock market has been operating for a while now. Is the job done? No. But our men and women can't finish the job if congress won't fund it. Read how vietnam ended.
I am aware of how vietnam ended,this is part of the reason congress should stop funds and bring the soldiers home,there is no need for an unnecessary war,american dollars are being spent on another country instead of helping our own,instead of spending millions of dollars to "re-build" iraq[which is a waste of money the just blow it up again] how about we try and fix new orleans or southern cali ?

Addiciting and expensive just like cocaine

Offline matrsnot

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2007, 10:41:58 PM »
First, IF DOD civilians get laid off, look tothe precious democratic congress, not the economy.  Second, if you are aware of how Viet Nam ended, why would you want to leave the job undone AGAIN?  Pol Pot.  Maybe you are too young to actually REMEMBER, I don't know, but I am old enough to remember what happened and the shame I felt at the time.  Not only that , but the way the public treated us (the military) as enemies at the time.  Third, the MSM is only going to report those things it deems bad enough to warrant their attention.  They don't want success stories anymore than the democrats want them.  guess which way the news media slants their stories?  To the FAR left.  Maybe they are the domestic enemies I swore to protect the Consititution against.  fourth, why would any of us want to resurrect Southern California, the hot bed of liberals and socialization or New Orleans, the chocolate city of Nagun; the only people stupid enought to build a city below sea level right next to the sea?

Offline fish

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2007, 10:54:10 PM »
Define "average american". ya know why milk went up? ethanol
Unemployment has been staedy 4.5-4.7%. The government is making a contingency to furlough(layoff) in the event the funds for the war are cut off. the government has been streamlining some operations for years. Some jobs are being contracted out. So what? I like the government cutting back on spending.
There are always bulls and bear stock advisors. One mentioned earlier this year the market would hit 11,000(it was at 12,500 at the time) before it hit 14,000. It has hit 14,000 several times and has not gone back to 11,000(yet).
Make what ever comments Rick will allow.
Why fix NO? Billions was sent there before katrina to improve levees. the money was spent on roads(some is in jefferson's freezer). Why should the government rebuild a city that is below sea level?
the environmentalists created the probelm in ca. they didn't get rid of the under growth like many wanted. the government does not need to rebuild areas due to fraud and stupidity,let the elected officials in those states answer to the residents(and voters). Getting rid of the terrorists and stabilizing iraq helps us. we still haven't been attacked since 9/11. The infrastucture is far better now and with fewer insurgents blowing utilities up, it is getting better. If you know how the vietnam war ended, why would you want to repeat history?

Offline fish

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Re: great way for congress to support the troops eh?
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2007, 10:57:00 PM »
we were posting at the same time matrs. hit  alot of the same points. HMMM.