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Author Topic: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true  (Read 10684 times)

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Offline sway-

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The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« on: December 02, 2007, 03:47:30 PM »

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The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true


George Bush Should be Impeached
Bush has committed several acts which justify impeachment. 
1. Bush lied to Congress and the American public about the reasons for invading Iraq.
2. Bush conducted illegal wiretaps of American citizens.
3. Bush violated International Law by invading a sovereign country for illegal purposes.
4. Bush violated the Geneva Convention by torturing prisoners of war.
5. Bush held prisoners without formal charges and without legal representation. [1]
6. Bush used government funds for domestic political propaganda. [NYT] [2]
7. The Bush team used uniformed military personnel for Republican party political purposes. [1] [2]
8. Bush was negligent in his slow response to help victims of Hurricane Katrina.
9. Bush shows contempt towards our Constitution and our democratic ideals.
Bush Misled America about the Threat from Iraq
If Saddam Hussein was an immediate and serious threat to America, as the White House claimed, then Bush might have been justified in invading Iraq. But it appears that Bush misled the public, the Congress and the UN by consistently overstating the threat from Iraq. By lying to Congress, Bush violated US Laws related to Fraud and False Statements, Title 18, Chapter 47, Section 1001 and Conspiracy to Defraud the United States, Title 18, Chapter 19, Section 371.
Lie ..1 - Uranium from Niger - Bush said "The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." in his State of the Union Address.
Lie ..2 - Iraq and 9/11 - Bush led people to believe that Iraq was involved with 9/11 by repeatedly linking them in his speaches. This was so effective that at one point 70f Americans actually believed Saddam was behind 9/11. Bush has since admitted that this was not true.
Lie ..3 - Congress Knew - Bush has stated that Congress had access to all the same information that the White House had. Thus he should not be blamed for making the mistake of going to war. But Bush was briefed many times about the falsehood of various stories and this information never reached Congress. [ZNet]
Lie ..4 - Aluminum Tubes - Bush, Cheney, Rice and Powell said that aluminum tubes Iraq attempted to buy were intended for use in a uranium centrifuge to create nuclear weapons. These were the only physical evidence he had against Iraq. But it turns out this evidence had been rejected by the Department of Energy and other intelligence agencies long before Bush used them in his speeches. [NYTimes] [MotherJones] [CNN]
Lie ..5 - Iraq and Al Qaeda - Bush still insists that there was a "relationship" between Iraq and Al Qaeda. But the 9/11 Commission released a report saying, among other things, that there was no "collaborative relationship" between Al Qaeda and Iraq. The nature of the relationship seems to be that Al Qaeda asked for help and Iraq refused. Al Qaeda was opposed to Saddam Hussein because Saddam led a secular government instead of an Islamic government. [ZNet] [CNN]
Lie ..6 - Weapons of Mass Destruction - Bush insisted that Iraq posessed weapons of mass destruction but his "evidence" consisted mostly of forged documents, plagiarised student papers, and vague satellite photos. The United Nations was on the ground in Iraq and could find nothing. After extensive searches Bush was finally forced to admit that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction.
Lie ..7 - Mobile Weapons Labs - Bush and his team repeatedly claimed that Iraq posessed mobile weapons labs capable of producing anthrax. Colin Powell showed diagrams of them at his speech before the UN to justify invading Iraq. These claims originated from Curveball, a discredited Iraqi informer who fed Bush many of the stories related to WMD. On May 29, 2003, two small trailers matching the description were found in Iraq. A team of bio-weapons experts examined the trailers and concluded they were simply designed to produce hydrogen for weather balloons. But, for over a year, Bush claimed these were part of Iraq's bio-weapons program. The expert's report was suppressed and only recently made public. [WashPost]
Lie Factory - The Secret Propaganda Team - Bush wanted so much to convince people of the need to invade Iraq that the White House set up a secret team in the Pentagon to create evidence. The Office of Special Plans routinely rewrote the CIA's intelligence estimates on Iraq's weapons programs, removing caveats such as "likely," "probably" and "may" as a way of depicting the country as an imminent threat. They also used unreliable sources to create reports that ultimately proved to be false. [Mother Jones] [New Yorker] [Wikipedia]
Resources
"IraqOnTheRecord" - database of 237 lies by administration officials about Iraq, compiled by Congressman Henry Waxman. http://democrats.reform.house.gov/IraqOnTheRecord
'CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD THE UNITED STATES: Misrepresenting the Truth in Order to Sell a War is A High Crime' by Elizabeth de la Vega
"Ex-CIA official: Bush administration misused Iraq intelligence", statements by Paul R. Pillar, CNN, 2/10/06
"Bush and Iraq: Mass Media, Mass Ignorance" by Jeff Cohen
List of Lies and News Links from BuzzFlash
"Key Bush Intelligence Briefing Kept From Hill Panel" 11/23/05, by Murray Waas
Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States - Title 18, Chapter 19, Section 371
Fraud and False Statements - Title 18, Chapter 47, Section 1001
Disarm Saddam Hussein, the White House's own summary of lies about Iraq.
Bush Conducted Illegal Wiretaps of American Citizens
Bush has admitted to authorizing the NSA, a secretive spy agency, to conduct warrantless wire taps on American citizens. The spying even extends to postal mail. The NSA has also been collecting phone records in an attempt to build a database of every phone call that is made.
Latest News: 8/18/06 - In response to a lawsuit filed by the ACLU, US District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor ruled that the wiretaps are unconstitutional.
1. The Bush wiretaps violated US law because he was required to get approval from FISA. He can start a wiretap of a suspected terrorist at any time but must then seek approval to continue within 72 hours.
2. Attorney General Gonzales claims HJR114 gave Bush authority to conduct the wiretaps. But HJR114 only grants use of the "Armed Forces". HJR114 does not explicitly suspend the Constitution. Also HJR114 requires "The President shall, at least once every 60 days, submit to the Congress a report on matters relevant to this joint resolution, including actions taken pursuant to the exercise of authority granted in section 3". Congress was not notified of these wiretaps. [HJR114]
3. Bush may have bypassed FISA because he wanted to listen to and analyze all international signals, not just those of suspected terrorists. He knew this was blatantly illegal so he hid it. Bush says "We use FISA still. But FISAs is for long-term monitoring. What is needed in order to protect the American people is the ability to move quickly to detect." Then later "There is a difference between detecting, so we can prevent, and monitoring. And it's important to note the distinction between the two." The distinction is that "detecting" requires listening to lots of calls with a computer to see if someone says certain keywords like "bomb" in Arabic, or maybe even "impeach Bush" in English. Monitoring is listening to a specific suspected terrorist. The problem with detection is that you have to listen to all calls, including yours and mine. [This NY Times article confirms this interpretation. Also CNN.]
4. More evidence that Bush wants to listen to all signals is in Bob Woodward's book "Bush at War," on page 303. " Bush summarized his strategy: 'Listen to every phone call and close them down and protect the innocents.'" [WaPost]
5. Investigators may have found that Bush applied for an expansion of wiretap capability from FISA, was rejected, and then went ahead and did it anyway. [FindLaw] [FAS]
6. Bush claims going through FISA is too slow but legal emergency wiretaps helped capture terrorist Mosquera.
7. According to a report in USA Today, the NSA is collecting the phone records of tens of millions of Americans - most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders. The stated goal is to be able to identify who is involved in a network of terrorists. But this same technique can be used to determine who is involved in a network of political activists who might, for example, oppose the Bush administration. Under Section 222 of the Communications Act, first passed in 1934, telephone companies are prohibited from giving out information regarding their customers' calling habits. All of the major telecommunications companies cooperated with this program except for Qwest. Joe Nacchio, CEO of Qwest, was troubled by the fact that there was no FISA approval and that the program was so pervasive.
8. 8/18/06 - In response to a lawsuit filed by the ACLU, US District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor ruled that the wiretaps are unconstitutional.
Resources
Transcript of Bush at a Press Conference discussing the wiretaps, 12/19/05 [CNN]
"An Update on President Bush's NSA Program: The Historical Context, Specter's Recent Bill, and Feingold's Censure Motion", in FindLaw, 3/24/06, by JOHN W. DEAN
"Bipartisan call for wiretapping probe", 12/21/05 [CNN]
Oregan court case determines that reasons for FISA approved wiretaps can remain secret. 3/18/03 [CNN]
US Code Title 50, Chapter 36, Subchapter I, Sec 1805 defining the operation of the FISA Court.
'What are the "Inherent" Powers of the President? How the Bush Administration Has Mistaken Default Rules for Exclusive Right' By Michael C. Dorf, Feb. 13, 2006 - analyses legality of wiretaps.
"Judge Rules Against Wiretaps NSA Program Called Unconstitutional" by Dan Eggen and Dafna Linzer, Washington Post Staff Writers, Friday, August 18, 2006
Notes
It is ironic that Bush prevented the FBI and other Investigators from investigating possible terrorist links by the Bin Laden family prior to 9/11.
Impeachment for Violating International Law
George Bush has committed war crimes in violation of the UN Charter and the Nuremberg Charter.
Synopsis: Bush attacked Iraq, against the decisions of the United Nations, and thus violated the UN Charter. Planning and committing a war of aggression is a violation of the Nuremberg Charter. According to the US Constitution these international treaties are part of the "supreme Law of the Land". Bush has violated the Nuremberg Charter and the UN Charter and is, therefore, subject to impeachment.
UN & Nuremberg Charters part of "the supreme Law of the Land"
Article VI of the US Constitution states that:
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land;"
Because Bush violated International Laws that we agreed to by treaty, then he is also violating the supreme Law of the Land which is an impeachable offense. Note that it says "or which shall be made" so treaties signed after the Constitution was adopted are still covered.
Violation of The United Nations Charter
Chapter 1, Article 2 of the UN Charter states:
3.All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
4.All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
Bush lied to the UN and to Congress about the seriousness of the threat from Iraq, and invaded Iraq in defiance of a vote from the UN Security Council. His actions inflamed the Arab world and set a dangerous precedent for any other country that wants to defy the UN and start their own war.
Violation of the Nuremberg Charter
Principle Vl of the Nuremberg Charter states:
The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under; international law:
a. Crimes against peace:
i. Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or
a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
ii .Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment
of any of the acts mentioned under (i).
Bush's invaded a sovereign country that had not threatened the United States and had no ability to do so. Bush had been making plans to invade Iraq even before 9/11.
Argulets and Talking Points
Bush Violated the Geneva Convention by Torturing Prisoners
On 6/22/04 Bush said "We do not condone torture. I have never ordered torture. I will never order torture. The values of this country are such that torture is not a part of our soul and our being." Is that true?
The evidence below shows that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Gonzales are guilty of violating "Federal Torture Act" Title 18 United States Code, Section 113C, the UN Torture Convention and the Geneva Convention by ordering and condoning the use of torture.
1. 1/25/02 - White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales wrote a memo advising the President of "the threat of domestic criminal prosecution under the War Crimes Act," a federal statute, for torturing prisoners. He advised Bush to invent a legal technicality --declaring detainees in the "war on terror" to be outside the Geneva Conventions --which, he said, "substantially reduces" the chance of prosecution. Gonzales was later promoted to US Attorney General. [Nation]
2. 2/7/02 - Bush took Gonzales' advice and signed an order declaring that members of Al Qaeda and the Taliban are not covered by the Geneva Convention. This gave the green light for torture and illegal detainment of prisoners.
3. Bush moves prisoners to Guantanamo Bay in Cuba and holds them for years without charges, trials, or access to lawyers. This is ruled illegal by a Federal Judge on Jan 31, 2005.
4. Bush sets up secret prisons run by the CIA in foreign countries to escape US laws against torture. Rice claims European countries supported this plan. [WashingtonPost] [CNN] [FindLaw]
5. 9/26/02 - Canadian Maher Arar was arrested at JFK airport and sent to secret prison in Syria for torture under "extraordinary rendition" program. He was released a year later without charges. He sued the US government but the suit was dismissed by a federal judge David Trager on 2/17/06 citing the need for secrecy. He wrote, "One need not have much imagination to contemplate the negative effect on our relations with Canada if discovery were to proceed in this case and were it to turn out that certain high Canadian officials had, despite public denials, acquiesced in Arar's removal to Syria." Thus the reason for the secrecy is not for national security but simply to avoid embarassing guilty parties in government. This sets a dangerous precedent that may allow Bush to kidnap and torture anyone he pleases. (Search CNN for news of this case and find nothing!) [Wikipedia]
6. Dec '02 - Alberto J. Mora, the general counsel of the United States Navy, tried to halt what he saw as a disastrous and unlawful policy of authorizing cruelty toward terror suspects. His 2004 memo details his unsuccessful struggle with the White House to stop the torture. [NewYorker]
7. 12/31/03 - German national Khaled al-Masri says he was abducted by the CIA arrested in Macedonia and flown to Afghanistan. He was then tortured for five months and released. CIA has admitted making a mistake in this case.
8. April 2004, photos of prisoners being tortured at Abu Ghraib prison make headlines around the world. Low ranking soldiers are convicted of torture charges, falling on their swords for the White House. [Wikipedia] [NewYorker]
9. October 2005, Senator McCain adds an amendment to a defense bill that would outlaw torture by the United States. Bush and Cheney fight this tooth and nail to block this amendment but eventually give in after the McCain amendment is weakened by the Graham-Levin amendment. When Bush signs the bill he adds a signing statement that basically says he can ignore the prohibition against torture under his powers as "unitary executive" and "Commander in Chief ".
10. 6/29/06 - Supreme Court rules in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld that the Geneva Convention applies to prisoners at Guantanamo
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Offline matrsnot

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2007, 04:09:35 PM »
Sway, these are all opinions expressed by different people at different times and unsbustantiated claims of terrorsts.  Not necessarily "facts".  As far as the UN charter goes, I don't recognize the UN as a legal body or organization.  I only recognize them as a terrorist organization unto themselves.  Blue Helmets = A Target Rich Environment. 

Offline blacksnapon

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2007, 07:24:25 PM »
are you suggesting an alternative,Sway?A little history lesson
A little history lesson: If you don't know the answer make your best guess. Answer all the questions before looking at the answers. Who said it ?

1) "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

A. Karl Marx
B. Adolph Hitler
C. Joseph Stalin
D. None of the above

2) "It's time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the few, by the few, and for the few and to replace it with shared responsibility for shared prosperity."

A. Lenin
B. Mussolini
C. Idi Amin
D. None of the Above

3) "(We)...can't just let business as usual go on, and that means something has to be taken away from some people."

A. Nikita Khrushev
B. Josef Goebbels
C. Boris Yeltsin
D. None of the above

4) "We have to build a political consensus and that requires people to give up a little bit of their own...in order to create this common ground."

A. Mao Tse Dung
B. Hugo Chavez
C. Kim Jong Il
D. None of the above

5) "I certainly think the free-market has failed."

A. Karl Marx
B. Lenin
C. Molotov
D. None of the above

6) "I think it's time to send a clear message to what has become the most profitable sector in (the) entire economy that they are being watched."

A. Pinochet
B. Milosevic
C. Saddam Hussein
D. None of the above







Answers:

(1) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/29/2004
(2) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 5/29/2007
(3) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(4) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(5) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(6) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 9/2/2005

Offline fish

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2007, 10:32:37 PM »
If what you say is true sway, where is the proof??? How many un resolutions were passed condemning saddam? How many called for a military response?
Ever hear of the iraq liberation act? It was signed by bubba in 1998. it called for a regime change. W was implementing a law.
All your post has been covered and recovered. The senate and house had the same access to the same info W had. they authorized the war by authorizing the funds.
WMD was found. it was mustard gas in bombs dating to the 1st gulf war. saddam said they had been destroyed.
USA today is a credible sourceLOL LOL. tens of millions of records are being collected? Are there millions of people reading them??
Your sources are laughable at best. If W did something wrong why hasn't the democrat congress pounced ??
woodward was selling a book. I suppose richard clark's book would be a reference too?
We don't answer to the UN. W did what the un refused to do,enforce the resolutions.
entertaining post though.

Offline sway-

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2007, 11:42:20 PM »
i actually receieved this in an email, thought some of you might enjoy it.
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Offline $BillsBoy

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2007, 12:55:49 AM »
I have a strong argument one one thing.

 Lie ..5 - Iraq and Al Qaeda - Bush still insists that there was a "relationship" between Iraq and Al Qaeda. But the 9/11 Commission released a report saying, among other things, that there was no "collaborative relationship" between Al Qaeda and Iraq. The nature of the relationship seems to be that Al Qaeda asked for help and Iraq refused. Al Qaeda was opposed to Saddam Hussein because Saddam led a secular government instead of an Islamic government. [ZNet] [CNN]



DO NOT try to tell me that Al Qaeda is not involved in Iraq. I will call BULLSHIT straight to your face. I see it EVERY DAY!! You can not tell me that some of the propaganda I have seen, and some of the people I have seen, are not part of Al Qaeda. Ask any person who is serving right now if they think Al Qaeda is in Iraq. Every single one will tell you yes. EVERY SINGLE ONE! If they hated Saddam so badly, why are they still killing Americans? Shouldn't they have been happy that we took Saddam out? hmm....
Have A Random Day!:D

Offline kbohon

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 01:58:19 AM »
Bill, that statement wasn't saying al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq. It was highlighting that the Bush administration led people to believe that the government (Saddam, at the time) was in bed with al Qaeda, so to speak.
 
I can remember the earliest newscasts (before war was officially declared but when we were anticipating it) showing video of an attack and fires afterward and the news anchor was saying "This may be a preemptive strike by the United States." A few hours later, it was attributed to al Qaeda, and had been an attack against Iraqis, not against the U.S.
 
Sway, I agree with the entire post personally. As I read it, it comes to my mind that even if what is happening there would produce a good outcome, the bottom line is that the Bush administration operates along the same lines as the Mafia or any other major organized crime group.
But we are long past the point of impeachment, and doing so wouldn't have effected the needed changes anyway.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline fish

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2007, 03:58:24 AM »
Just a case of junk mail sway.    bubba was impeached for something that is not near as serious as the allegations against W. If W is guilty of all this ,again, why are the dems not leading a charge for impeachment.
Comparing W to the mafia K? LOL LOL
Saman pak is a known al queda terrorist camp, located near bagdad. saddam was paying the families of the homicide bombers $25k, isn't that supporting terrorism?
The dems still haven't gotten over the fact W was elected,, twice.
 

Offline peon

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2007, 08:07:56 AM »
you mean stole the election twice.  he was not elected by the people, but by the electoral college.  he didn't even have the popular vote.  the elections were a joke, perpetrated on the american people by the republican elite.

Offline matrsnot

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2007, 10:28:53 AM »
Better thatn the two false heroes of Viet Nam being elected.  Remember them?  Wish I could forget them entirely.

Offline sway-

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2007, 12:51:28 PM »
you mean stole the election twice.  he was not elected by the people, but by the electoral college.  he didn't even have the popular vote.  the elections were a joke, perpetrated on the american people by the republican elite.
thank you !And go figure the state that gets the re-count in 2000 in florida..hmmm
and kbohon i do agree with it,but i wanted to make sure everyone knew that i didn't write this, i shouldn't take good credit from the great person who actually took the time to put all that information together lol
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Offline Strictly Confidential

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2007, 02:32:19 PM »
Before reguritating this kind of information, not matter which side you stand on, you owe it to youself to check it out - it goes directly to your credibility.  Do you really want to be known as a person that passes on incorrect inforation and innuendo?
 
It amazes me how many people read this stuff and base their opinions on it, without a single fact check.
 
I made it to number one before i saw it was gonna be on of those posts, reflecting someones very biased opinion, and who would not change that opinion regardless of the facts presented.
 
Fact of the matter is we invaded Iraq with the full endorsement of the US congress, and the President is not responsible for intelligence - we have DIA, CIA, and thousands of others responsible for providing the President and the US Congress with correct information...
 
Oh, btw, the US congress HEADS several intelligence related committies.   ::)
 
Good thing some people believe these dem's didn't support the war, despite voting for it.
 
Beyond nutz, its bold face lying, and people still sign up for it.
"All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing." --Edmund Burke

Offline $BillsBoy

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2007, 04:06:50 PM »
you mean stole the election twice.  he was not elected by the people, but by the electoral college.  he didn't even have the popular vote.  the elections were a joke, perpetrated on the american people by the republican elite.


In case you didn't know. That's how the election works. All you have to do is win the right states and you get what you need. Don't act like Bush made that up or was the first president to ever win that way.
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Offline 02Tundra

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2007, 04:22:06 PM »
you mean stole the election twice.  he was not elected by the people, but by the electoral college.  he didn't even have the popular vote.  the elections were a joke, perpetrated on the american people by the republican elite.
Nothing new here.  We have always done it this way--this wasn't just done during the last two elections.  FYI, Bush received over 50% of the popular vote in 2004.  And I do believe that he received more than Bill Clinton got in the two elections he won! 

Offline kbohon

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2007, 06:03:14 PM »
Before reguritating this kind of information, not matter which side you stand on, you owe it to youself to check it out - it goes directly to your credibility.  Do you really want to be known as a person that passes on incorrect inforation and innuendo?
 
It amazes me how many people read this stuff and base their opinions on it, without a single fact check.
 
I made it to number one before i saw it was gonna be on of those posts, reflecting someones very biased opinion, and who would not change that opinion regardless of the facts presented.
 
Fact of the matter is we invaded Iraq with the full endorsement of the US congress, and the President is not responsible for intelligence - we have DIA, CIA, and thousands of others responsible for providing the President and the US Congress with correct information...
 
Oh, btw, the US congress HEADS several intelligence related committies.   ::)
 
Good thing some people believe these dem's didn't support the war, despite voting for it.
 
Beyond nutz, its bold face lying, and people still sign up for it.

SC, gotta disagree with you here. The facts you're stating are at the level of "first look." It's what appears to be true if you don't delve deeper. It's been said that to get to the heart of any matter, it's necessary to ask "why" five times. Each of those points represents a deeper look. It's true that a few of them are vague, based on innuendo, or biased. But it's equally true that most of them have are based on facts rather than speculation.

As time goes on, the dirty little secrets of this administration will continue to come to light, I believe, although by the time it does, people will respond with an attitude of "Oh, well, it's over now, so who cares?"
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retired1_us

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2007, 06:35:20 PM »
Saddam didn't give a squat about the southern part of the country.  He may not have "been in bed" with Al Qaeda, but he turned a blind eye to their travels throughout the country.  Anyway.....

The prelude began with Bubba:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq

Yes, that is only one source - wiki, but there are facts that can be traced - the executive orders, UN mandates, etc, etc.  Bush came in and took control of the situation.  Even prior to 9/11 they were playing out scenarios....not because that is what they WANTED to do, but because they were OBLIGATED to do by merit of their job requirements.

History repeats itself (both good and bad) because too many people lose track of what got them where they are.

Offline kbohon

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2007, 06:39:22 PM »
Now I *would* say that the Clintons and Bush are in bed together politically.

Saddam is no innocent, and I'm not trying to say he is. But to me it's like arresting a drug dealer's neighbor who saw the dealer's comings and goings but failed to report them. It might be taking action, but it still didn't get to the source. He may be an accessory to it, but in going after him and dropping bin Laden as an objective within 3 months, the government lost my respect and belief to a significant degree.
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retired1_us

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2007, 06:57:30 PM »
I can agree with that.  He was an easy target.  No rocket science here.  Again, from another thread.....scary huh?  Keep the people stirred up but sedated.  They won't see simple truths.  Logic will defy them.

Offline sway-

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2007, 06:59:41 PM »

In case you didn't know. That's how the election works. All you have to do is win the right states and you get what you need. Don't act like Bush made that up or was the first president to ever win that way.

No one made it seem like Bush was the first person to use the electoral college or to win with it, but it does seem out of place that of ALL the states that need a re-count it is florida where his brother is the govenor, come on california didn't even need a re count and they are a lot bigger than florida ?
Quote
DO NOT try to tell me that Al Qaeda is not involved in Iraq. I will call BULLSHIT straight to your face. I see it EVERY DAY!! You can not tell me that some of the propaganda I have seen, and some of the people I have seen, are not part of Al Qaeda. Ask any person who is serving right now if they think Al Qaeda is in Iraq. Every single one will tell you yes. EVERY SINGLE ONE! If they hated Saddam so badly, why are they still killing Americans? Shouldn't they have been happy that we took Saddam out? hmm....
And i did ask my husband what he thought[of coarse] and im not going to argue with him on his thought of iraq seeing as this WILL BE HIS THIRD TIME in may,but he didn't totally agree with you on this whole al-queda in iraq bs,that the civilians are at much to blame because they don't want american's in their country[who blames them?]but it is your opinion and that is my opinion so we are both correct seeing as it is an opinion.
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Offline kbohon

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2007, 07:37:33 PM »
No one made it seem like Bush was the first person to use the electoral college or to win with it, but it does seem out of place that of ALL the states that need a re-count it is florida where his brother is the govenor, come on california didn't even need a re count and they are a lot bigger than florida ?

There was a man (sorry, I don't recall his name) who testified that prior to the election, his software company (not owned by him, he was an employee) was tasked with finding a way to manipulate election results and that they successfully develop a method. I imagine that's why all the states would need a recount.

Ok, correction... got the name and a couple links for you:

http://www.lonestaricon.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=673&
tells the story.

http://www.linkcrusader.com/StolenElection.htm is a list of many links related to vote fraud in Florida, Ohio, and possibly New Mexico. The links go to sites discussing how it could or allegedly was done, how the media played a role, and much more.

If you have myspace, the actual video of the guy's testimony before Congress about his role in developing the means to rig an election is at
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=663465670&n=2 . The video is also available on youtube and is where I first watched it.





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Offline $BillsBoy

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2007, 12:50:10 AM »
I wasn't saying that Al Qaeda is the only ones perpetrating here. They play a big part but so do other lesser know militias such as Jaysh al-Mahdi. I didn't mean to blame everything one one group. This entire part of the world is made up of so many different factions its hard to tell them apart sometimes. I know that its plain ol' civilians doin the stuff too. That's because they don't have an Army to go join. Even if they did I don't think they would. It works better the way they are doin things I am sorry to say.
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Offline matrsnot

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2007, 01:30:07 AM »
Florida needed a recount because people there cannot properly use a puch card and the counters could not use common sense in determining that a hanging chad pushed out means it was a vote in that direction. 

Offline kbohon

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2007, 02:34:19 AM »
We're on opposite sides of that fence Matrsnot.
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Offline fish

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2007, 03:51:41 AM »
And the dems still can't accept W won!!

Offline fish

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2007, 04:02:32 AM »
saddam and obl had an understanding that though they did not support each other,they supported each others attacks/hate towards the US.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/27/walq27.xml

Offline kbohon

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2007, 04:42:01 AM »
No doubt. But just because I like chocolate ice cream and you like chocolate ice cream, that doesn't make us best friends.
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Offline sway-

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2007, 12:41:57 PM »
I concur kbohon, not to mention anyone can find a million different excuses to back up a re count in florida ,soo its not like anyone really knows the truth.
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Offline kbohon

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2007, 03:24:24 PM »
I concur kbohon, not to mention anyone can find a million different excuses to back up a re count in florida ,soo its not like anyone really knows the truth.

Yet.
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Offline 02Tundra

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2007, 05:44:00 PM »
I really have a hard time understanding how people can still complain about the election of 2000.  Hell, this subject has been beat down for over seven years now!  What difference does your complaint make on the outcome of the election?  He has since been reelected with a majority of the vote as I stated above, but you still cry about 2000--unfricken believeable.

retired1_us

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Re: The Bush MESS all the facts you never wanted to be true
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2007, 06:22:50 PM »
He will take a beating until he leaves office.  Yet nobody else in DC has any better solutions to the issues facing us.  The REAL issues.  We've got troops in the field wondering no doubt how they will be funded in the next few months, and all Congress is worried about is a friggin' global warming bill.  "Historic Vote Wednesday".......