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Author Topic: any one heard?  (Read 6596 times)

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Offline susanna7575

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any one heard?
« on: January 04, 2008, 05:36:39 AM »

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Offline blissfullybusy

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2008, 05:42:29 AM »
I saw that on tonights news.  *shakes head*
Women are Angels

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We simply continue to fly.........on a broomstick...

Because we are flexible like that

Offline susanna7575

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2008, 05:45:12 AM »
I only got to hear parts of it..

Offline blissfullybusy

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2008, 06:02:32 AM »
Women are Angels

And when someone breaks our wings....

We simply continue to fly.........on a broomstick...

Because we are flexible like that

Offline blissfullybusy

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2008, 06:08:43 AM »
if you do a search on the soldiers on myspace they both have a page too.
Women are Angels

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We simply continue to fly.........on a broomstick...

Because we are flexible like that

Offline littlebit

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2008, 06:24:19 AM »
This is what happens to our military when they lower their entrance standards....
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous...


“The truth is, everyone is going to end up hurting you. You just have to find the ones who are worth suffering for.”

Offline kbohon

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2008, 08:12:53 AM »
Sounds stupid to me. Hate to say it, but at 13 y.o. those girls were willing and consenting. Three dates mentioned, and dad pressing charges. The soldiers might be disrespectful and too old for those girls, but rape isn't the word I'd use.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2008, 12:32:39 PM »
Seems like the Dad needs to be more aware of what his girls are doing and teaching them appropriate behavior instead of worrying about those soldiers. 

Offline ~kathy~

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2008, 01:18:31 PM »
when I went to court to see what would happen to a guy who had gotten 2 differant girls pregnant one was 14 and the other girl was 15 and he was 27 it wasn't consider rape but statutory rape the judge said he got the sentence he got because he said he was a child predator and needed help that it sickened him that a man would prey on young children. I don't feel as it is rape when both parties are willing. But I do feel like it is sick because these girls don't really understand what sex really is all about and think the only way for someone to like them is to put out. I don't feel like these men should get away with what they have done either because they are the ones that are supposed to be the adult and tell children no way and go home. I DO know what rape is like for I was forced when I was 15, and yes it was real rape because I was tied up and had a pistol held to my head. Kids today need to be taught more about sex and made to understand it doesn't help someone like them more and Adults need to remember these are children and shouldn't take advantage of them just because they think they can get away with it.
Go ahead and blame me....Everyone else does

Offline 48fan

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2008, 01:39:17 PM »
Well said Kathy!!!   There IS NO SUCH THING AS CONSENTUAL SEX with a MINOR <PERIOD> That is why we call them MINOR's; they have no ability to define right from wrong <PERIOD>  Yes, some are smart for their age but that just does not count when dealing with a minor. These are children.....  They are suppose to be protected from this kind of activity... WHERE ARE THE PARENTS???? Why are children allowed to be in these situations???? Where are the FAMILY Values???

Offline melissacaroline

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2008, 03:13:51 PM »
When I heard this on the news I felt sick! Especially being the mother of a 13 year old girl! A 13 year old is not mature enough to make the decision about sex...and a 20 year old male pursuing her.....knowing that she is only 13 is just wrong, sick and illegal.
My husband, an MP in the army saw a lot of this crap in Germany too.......parents HAVE to be involved in their kids lives - but that doesn't give the predators a free ride.....
The parents really need to get involved in their daughters life, how the heck was she allowed on Myspace?! My daughter can only access the internet in the kitchen when either my husband or I are in the same room!
These soldiers are a disgrace to themselves and the army.
Melissa

Offline Coyote

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2008, 03:33:59 PM »
Well, back in my childhood days, my mom and dad didn't give a crap where me and my brother were or what we were doing, or who we were with, just as long as we were out of their hair.  At 12-15 we drank, ran around with older people, stayed out all night, and looked up to guys like these Soldiers.  At 14, my "boyfriend" was 22 (seemed ok at the time).  We lied and told my mom and dad he was 18 and that was ok with them....we double dated.  Makes me sick to this day and I overprotected my own kids to no end.  But in the end I seem to be ok and so do they.  Maybe in reality I'm really not all that together, but what can you do?  I wish it had been different.  Stories like this break my heart.
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline fknarmyguyretired

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2008, 05:09:28 PM »
While I don't believe that 20 year old men should have anything to do with 13 year old girls, I think the parents should be facing neglect or child endangerment charges for allowing it to happen.  Did they not know where their daughters where?

Sounds stupid to me. Hate to say it, but at 13 y.o. those girls were willing and consenting. Three dates mentioned, and dad pressing charges. The soldiers might be disrespectful and too old for those girls, but rape isn't the word I'd use.

Offline Coyote

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2008, 05:15:41 PM »
Exactly.

While I don't believe that 20 year old men should have anything to do with 13 year old girls, I think the parents should be facing neglect or child endangerment charges for allowing it to happen.  Did they not know where their daughters where?

....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline cayteaka

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2008, 05:20:27 PM »
If the guys knew they were that they were that young then I say burn them at the stake. I would like to point out that the majority of the kids today do look, dress and act much more mature than their actual years. In my line of work, on more than one occassion, I have had both guys and girls lie to me about their age because they do not want their parents contacted and in most of those instances the kids do look older than 18. I had one girl look every bit of 20 and after asking around found out she was only 12. This goes the same for guys. My son for example is only 12 but is a tall kid and starting to fill out and get facial hair. On any given day he could easily pass for 16 or 17.

I say parents need to monitor their children. Be aware of the clothes they buy and appropriate ages for certain things such as make-up, etc. I am now having the fight with my daughter about shaving her legs. She is only 10 and feels she is the only girl with hairy legs in the entire 5th grade. I told her to wear pants until she gets in 9th grade because I was  not revisiting the issue until then. She has friends who are already waxing their eyebrows, wearing very mature hair cuts and make-up and revealing outfits. A few of them also do not have curfews or have strict rules to follow. I am very old fashioned and must not only talk to the parents but know the parents before she stays at anyones home for visits or for sleepovers.
I do not want to come off as I am blaming the parents. Some things can't be helped as many parents work two jobs each just to make ends meat and are just unable to keep up with the kids and in some cases the parents could be doing everything right but they just have a really rebelouse kid.

Offline kbohon

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2008, 05:28:25 PM »
It sounds like the father knew, and tried to place limits.

I don't agree that a minor can't consent to (whatever.) If I ask a first grader if they want a cookie, they are capable of consenting, even if they are not able to recognize any risk factors. And they are capable of changing their minds. When it comes to sex, many adults aren't any better capable of determining risk factors, either. How many people get married and when they divorce say that sex was a major factor in their decision? How many adults are raped each year? How many get STDs? A person's age has little to do with the ability to consent or judgment, and we are fooling ourselves to claim it does. I know that's not the popular view, but it's true.

My kids didn't like that I threw away clothing that was suggestive, because they WANTED to explore that. Yes, I realize that they don't have the same ability to judge risk factors that I do, and I placed my own judgment far above theirs. But teenage girls are at an age where they do want to participate and feel "grown up" and to claim that it's impossible for them to do so is ludicrous.
And as for the guys involved, they may have broken the law, but it's also true that younger women, particularly teens, are more appealing to men of all ages, partly because of human wiring and partly because our media pushes that as the "ultimate" desirability. But you'll never convince me that men of all ages don't find women that age to be at their most physically appealing. There might be some men who don't find it attractive, but I'd say most of them would be lying if they claimed otherwise.
 
At 35 years old, a man who could participate regularly with someone 14 is deviant. Their life experiences are far too different to find commonality for a relationship. But at 20? Their life stages aren't so very different.
Ok, flame away now.
 
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline blissfullybusy

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2008, 05:40:38 PM »
While I don't believe that 20 year old men should have anything to do with 13 year old girls, I think the parents should be facing neglect or child endangerment charges for allowing it to happen.  Did they not know where their daughters where?


I disagree.  My parents tried everything with me at 13-14 but I was going to whatever I wanted to do.  Which included sneaking out of the house to do it.  They can't help what they don't know.  My dad went so far as nailing my window shut and getting a dog.  I just got better at sneaking out.

I know when I was 13 I'd lie to my parents and tell them I was staying all night at Best Friend's house and she'd tell her parents she was staying at my house.  We were together all the time so why wouldn't they have believed us. 

Maybe those parents tried and they just didn't know about it.

I'm not like that now of course and know exactly what to look at in my own children, but we can't blame the parents for everything.  At some point they have to be accountable for their own actions.

I do agree that 20 year old men should have NOTHING to do with 13 year old girls.  I'm very curious though if those girls told them their real age.  I know I was often one who told my age as older.  And lets face it my son is that age and some of the girls at his school look like 17 or 18 year old girls.  *shakes head*
Women are Angels

And when someone breaks our wings....

We simply continue to fly.........on a broomstick...

Because we are flexible like that

Offline 48fan

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2008, 05:50:07 PM »
It sounds like the father knew, and tried to place limits.

I don't agree that a minor can't consent to (whatever.) If I ask a first grader if they want a cookie, they are capable of consenting, even if they are not able to recognize any risk factors. And they are capable of changing their minds. When it comes to sex, many adults aren't any better capable of determining risk factors, either. How many people get married and when they divorce say that sex was a major factor in their decision? How many adults are raped each year? How many get STDs? A person's age has little to do with the ability to consent or judgment, and we are fooling ourselves to claim it does. I know that's not the popular view, but it's true.

My kids didn't like that I threw away clothing that was suggestive, because they WANTED to explore that. Yes, I realize that they don't have the same ability to judge risk factors that I do, and I placed my own judgment far above theirs. But teenage girls are at an age where they do want to participate and feel "grown up" and to claim that it's impossible for them to do so is ludicrous.
And as for the guys involved, they may have broken the law, but it's also true that younger women, particularly teens, are more appealing to men of all ages, partly because of human wiring and partly because our media pushes that as the "ultimate" desirability. But you'll never convince me that men of all ages don't find women that age to be at their most physically appealing. There might be some men who don't find it attractive, but I'd say most of them would be lying if they claimed otherwise.
 
At 35 years old, a man who could participate regularly with someone 14 is deviant. Their life experiences are far too different to find commonality for a relationship. But at 20? Their life stages aren't so very different.
Ok, flame away now.
 

So you would look the other way if your children were involved with this situation?

No offense; because everyone can have their opinion; but I for one TOTALLY disagree and I for one believe that attitudes like yours is what is causing the downfall of this planet....

A Minor is a Minor for a reason.... No Excecptions to the rule.... These are CHILDREN!!!

I can't believe this is even up for debate.

Offline cayteaka

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2008, 06:36:37 PM »
In this case I do not believe that a 13 year old should be held accountable to the full effect of her decision. Should she be held accountable for her lieing about her age or anything elses she lied about, (if that is the case) absolutely.

This is not a matter of a child who hit so and so on the playground and she knew it was wrong. A child at that age is not mentally mature enough to understand the full effect of the decision she is making. The possiblity of STD's, the fact of she is probably agreeing to do it because she thinks she is in love, or wants to be cool or better liked among her peers. She is not thinking about  who's gonna have protection or the ramifications of a possible pregnancy or the fact that this probly just sex to this guy.

I do not agree with you that a 20 year old and a 13 year olds lifestyles are not so different. You have someone who has been out of school for 2-3 years and someone may be in middle school or just entered high school.The twenty year old in this case is in the army and has been supporting himslef in the "real world" for a while. Regardless if the 13 year old is out of her parents control or not, she had no real idea of how the real world works or how mature men think.Though she may look physically mature enough, mentaly and emotionally she is lacking and thus a target.

This guy may truly be guilty of not asking for an id card and getting burned by some one he thought was of age. Or he may be predator in the making by knowing her age and taking advantage of it. 

KBOHON though I usually agree with you on many issues if I were to agree with your current reasoning I would compare it to this situation:

A 13 year old teenager thinks the grass is greener on the other side and for whatever the reason runs away. While living on the streets the teenager is raped and murdered. Under your current philosophy the teenager deserved it because the kid chose to live in on the streets instead of staying or returning back home. I'm sorry but I just can't agree with you on this one.

Offline tpgunbiz

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2008, 07:02:47 PM »
I believe they should pay dearly for their crime, I also think these gorls should spend some time in a juvenile counsling center to educate them better. at 13 they should still be Kids, not acting like adults. I blame rap music and internet.
Biscuit

Offline Coyote

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2008, 07:16:43 PM »
There was no rap or internet in my early teen days.  Music has always had sexual overtones.  It doesn't matter anyway.  Responsibility is at home. 
....and that night as the moon crossed the mountain, one more Coyote was heard...

Offline just_me

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2008, 07:22:41 PM »
I do not agree with you that a 20 year old and a 13 year olds lifestyles are not so different. You have someone who has been out of school for 2-3 years and someone may be in middle school or just entered high school.The twenty year old in this case is in the army and has been supporting himslef in the "real world" for a while.

I completely disagree with this. My husband has plenty of 20 year old soldiers and believe me, there are many out there that do not understand what being an adult is. They still act like kids and try to pull silly kid crap. 20 year old's in the army today are not living in the real world. Their hand is held and they are walked through most everything because if something is wrong, it is their NCO's "fault" for not helping, not knowing or not doing.
Part of the responsibility is on the soldiers, part of the responsibility is on the girls and part of the responsibility is on the parents. Lets spread it equally.....PERIOD.....

Offline tpgunbiz

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2008, 07:40:16 PM »
I dont really blame the music.lol, I say that about everything thats wrong with kids these days. It must be the Rap music.
Biscuit

Offline blissfullybusy

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2008, 07:40:57 PM »
I completely disagree with this. My husband has plenty of 20 year old soldiers and believe me, there are many out there that do not understand what being an adult is. They still act like kids and try to pull silly kid crap. 20 year old's in the army today are not living in the real world. Their hand is held and they are walked through most everything because if something is wrong, it is their NCO's "fault" for not helping, not knowing or not doing.
Part of the responsibility is on the soldiers, part of the responsibility is on the girls and part of the responsibility is on the parents. Lets spread it equally.....PERIOD.....

Heck my husband is 35 years old and still a child. haha
Women are Angels

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We simply continue to fly.........on a broomstick...

Because we are flexible like that

Offline ♥♣ ~Maynard~♣♥

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2008, 08:05:14 PM »
I disagree.  My parents tried everything with me at 13-14 but I was going to whatever I wanted to do.  Which included sneaking out of the house to do it.  They can't help what they don't know.  My dad went so far as nailing my window shut and getting a dog.  I just got better at sneaking out.

I know when I was 13 I'd lie to my parents and tell them I was staying all night at Best Friend's house and she'd tell her parents she was staying at my house.  We were together all the time so why wouldn't they have believed us. 

Maybe those parents tried and they just didn't know about it.

I'm not like that now of course and know exactly what to look at in my own children, but we can't blame the parents for everything.  At some point they have to be accountable for their own actions.

I do agree that 20 year old men should have NOTHING to do with 13 year old girls.  I'm very curious though if those girls told them their real age.  I know I was often one who told my age as older.  And lets face it my son is that age and some of the girls at his school look like 17 or 18 year old girls.  *shakes head*
I agree with you totally on this one.
I used to sneak out all the time when the parents thought i was tucked away safe in bed, Children no exactly what there doing and todays children are the best at screwing adults over and saying i'm just a kid and i don't know better thats bullshit plain and simple.
 But you can blame the parents for one thing and thats not being as smart as their children.
 and blissfullybusy i sure wish you were one of the girls i was sneaking out the window to see *eyeroll* LOL!!
 
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Offline 02Tundra

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2008, 08:15:08 PM »
This is what happens to our military when they lower their entrance standards....

There has always been these type of problems in the military.  Young guys that think with the wrong head and don't realize the consequences of their actions.  Don't think it has anything to do with lowered entrance standards.

Offline cayteaka

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2008, 08:17:21 PM »
 Does not matter that the soldiers have their hands held or not, an adult has more experience, mental maturity and knowledge than a 13 year old kid. Even at 16 there is a vast difference in emotional and mental maturity from a 13 year old. I agree that every party involved should share responsibility in what created this situation. However, I will not agree that the 13 year old is primarily to blame as someone was stating earlier.

Offline just_me

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2008, 10:31:23 PM »
Heck my husband is 35 years old and still a child. haha

ppsstt......mine is 36 LOL I tell people I am a single mother of 4 LOL

Offline kbohon

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2008, 02:57:03 AM »
A 20-year doesn't have THAT much more responsibility than a teen, and maybe even less than the teen in some cases. I know that at 14, I was able to walk into bars with my stepmother's ID card because I carried myself more maturely. I know that my parents couldn't control me, and that I moved out for the first time when I was that girl's age and STILL carried myself with more responsibility than at least one of my parents has to this day.

It's true that a teen probably doesn't consider all the consequences. As I said, neither do adults in many, many cases. My point was more aimed at how a person's life stage determines whether or not any element of consent vs. coercion applies.
A 20-year old and a 13-year old are normally in different life stages, and no, I would never turn my head if my daughters engaged in something like this. But a 20-year old's life stage is not all THAT different. A teen is learning social skills and starting to develop independence from the family unit. This stage changes to what I call young adulthood when the individual now has to pay for his or her own upkeep - thus "learning" responsibility, time management, and beginning to explore career options. A 30-year old's life stage is different still, having developed the previous skills and now focusing more on career and family.
So I reiterate.... There's not THAT much difference between the life stages of those girls and those soldiers, and while I agree that the girls don't have solid experience to use sound judgment, neither do the soldiers have the sound judgment that comes with completing the lessons of their life stages, which is that of learning to behave responsibly.
Heck is where people go when they don't believe in Gosh.

Offline 48fan

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Re: any one heard?
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2008, 03:43:46 AM »
kbohon I stand partially corrected. I believe you have said it a lot better the secound time.

I also stand on my first post A Minor can not have CONSENTUAL SEX. A Minor can not give CONSENT. There are pretty good laws governing their abilities. The laws are in place to protect them from having to make these decisions. I for one think it is 100% the adults responsibility be it shared blame between the soldiers and the parents or the soldiers alone.
Just my opinion...