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Author Topic: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School  (Read 18020 times)

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Offline Digital Narcosis

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Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« on: March 28, 2008, 02:28:11 AM »

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http://waynesvilledailyguide.com/articles/2008/03/27/news/news01.txt

by
Darrell Todd Maurina

from the Waynesville Daily Guide

Program would be run by Child Evangelism Fellowship

LAQUEY— Students in Laquey Elementary School will soon have a new option fortheir after-school activities: participation in a Good News Clubsponsored by Child Evangelism Fellowship.
David Hokanson, Laquey’s part-time technology coordinator, toldschool board members during their Monday night meeting that the ChildEvangelism Fellowship organization sponsors 44 Good News Clubs invarious Missouri schools and that the program has passed court scrutiny.

Theorganization is a non-denominational Christian ministry, Hokanson said,and the program in Laquey would be run by volunteers who are familiarwith the area.

“The first thing everybody is going to ask isthis big thing about separation of church and state,” Hokanson said.“This is all OK; we aren’t going to get in trouble for having this inour school.”
Hokanson told board members that a 2003 U.S. Supreme Court decisionruled that schools aren’t allowed to discriminate against religiousorganizations that want to use school facilities if other organizationsare allowed to use school facilities, and said the Eighth JudicialCircuit, of which Missouri is a part, has ruled that teachers and otherschool staff members are allowed to work with such clubs in theiroff-duty time.

Child Evangelism Fellowship carries a $1 millionliability policy in case of lawsuits or accidents, Hokanson said, andsaid the program should be an asset to the Laquey school.

“Thisis of course a religious club, but along with that goes the teaching ofmoral standards and the character traits we want our children to have,”Hokanson said.
Responding to questions from school board members, Hokanson said theclub wouldn’t be requesting to use school classrooms but would preferto use the school cafeteria.

Club meetings usually take about 90 minutes to two hours, he said.

GoodNews Clubs usually start earlier in the school year and Hokanson saidhe’s not sure how many activities can be conducted for a club beginningjust a few months before the end of the school year.
“We’d just like to try it and see,” Hokanson said.

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2008, 02:35:47 AM »
So... if someone wanted to start a Islamic oriented club... is that all cool and ok?

How about Wicca?  What about Scientology?  Or maybe even a club dedicated to Satanism?

Offline ratatattat

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2008, 02:41:49 AM »
Yep, all cool and ok. You dont HAVE to join, its an OPTION!

Offline julymorning

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2008, 03:08:59 AM »
So... if someone wanted to start a Islamic oriented club... is that all cool and ok?

How about Wicca?  What about Scientology?  Or maybe even a club dedicated to Satanism?


I remember clubs like this from way back, just depends on the interest in the children and what they want. Scouting, 4H, alot of those clubs have some Christian based areas involved.  DN, this country is still predominately Christian, last I heard.
I can think of worse things the kids can get into after school, like witchcraft, satanism, scientology, and Islam.  Or maybe just race cars up and down the interstate.
Hey, it's just me, Suzi


Offline ♣♥Young & Foolish♥♣

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2008, 04:00:51 PM »
I dont see any problem with it. I would rather my child be there than out getting in trouble. It is something they will always remember and carry the values with them throughout life.

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2008, 05:32:24 AM »
I remember once upon a time the common idea was very much different when someone wanted to start a Gay and Lesbian Alliance club or whatever it was called.

Point being... why are certain clubs OK when others are not?  All of these clubs in question are harmless... so...

What was the big stink about one organization over another? 

Does the Highschool in Waynesville still have one of those clubs theirselves?  If not now, I know that they used to...

Offline tpgunbiz

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2008, 06:36:19 PM »
I thought it waqs illegal to have religious activities at school.  I believe if you want religion, go to church. keep it out of school. school is for education , not religion.
Biscuit

Offline OLDigahmah

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2008, 08:23:34 PM »
It isn't during school, it is after school, and you have a choice whether to attend or not.  And they do have religious activities at school, it is called Fellowship of Christian Athletes or some are called Fellowship of Christian Students.  As long as they have a faculty member who is willling to oversee it at no cost to the school they can have it.  As I said, it is a choice to join or not.

Offline littlebit

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2008, 08:33:07 PM »
Isn't the facility funded by the state? Wouldn't this be a violation of separation of church and state? There are numerous churches in this area. (More than I care to count). I am sure any one of these churches would be happy to host this club.
(Some even have buses to transport the children.) I am all for freedom of religion, but school is not the place for non academic activities.
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous...


“The truth is, everyone is going to end up hurting you. You just have to find the ones who are worth suffering for.”

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2008, 08:53:38 PM »
I believe this is just another way to dodge the rules that were enacted for a reason...

Now, before anyone says that I am just being "anti-Christian" or some other explosion of random stupidity, I will say this on the matter...

I don't feel that this is a bad thing to be happening... something after-school to keep kids out of trouble is always a good thing to have around... however... I do not agree with the setting.  I do not feel that any religious group (now take note before you open your mouthes that I said "ANY") should be able to hold any sort of activities in our public schools... this goes double for the groups that are already in place (FCA, FCS etc.)

I especially feel this way based on the items that have come up in the past...  As I already stated... There was once upon a time a Gay and Lesbian alliance thing that was going around.  When it did... the flood gates were opened and everyone was all for saying that this was "school" and there was no place for that sort of thing there.

This is the major reason that I am against this... why is one group given dominion to do as they please when another is denied?  There is no difference in the groups.  They are both life-style oriented groups.

It was commonly said before when this issue came up "Well, let them have their group off of school grounds."

Why does one get the green light but the other is denied?  This thing should be hald OFF of school grounds based on all of the prior opinions on this sort of matter.

As I said before... would it be alright if someone created an Islamic based group at Laquey School?  Or something to do with Wicca?

Why or why not?

Offline ♣♥Young & Foolish♥♣

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2008, 08:56:06 PM »
its only after school and i see no problems with it. Maybe this is the only way some children will get religion into their lives. Yes there are many churches around here but some parents dont go, therefor the child will not go either. I am for any groups that will shape the child into becoming a better adult.

Offline fish

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2008, 10:24:07 PM »
are all the churches available at the time the kids would meet? It is a convenient, safe location, supervised by a faculty member. It is non denominational so kids of different faiths can go. what is the down side?
Can those bitching provide a better alternative and do the work that VOLUNTEERS are going to do?

Offline littlebit

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2008, 10:57:00 PM »
its only after school and i see no problems with it. Maybe this is the only way some children will get religion into their lives. Yes there are many churches around here but some parents don't go, therefor the child will not go either. I am for any groups that will shape the child into becoming a better adult.

Are you condoning the teaching of religion to children without their parent's permission? Is this not a choice to be made by the parents?
It is not the responsibility of the school, church, or day care to instill morals and values in our children... Ultimately it is up to the parents. If you want your child to have Christ in his or her lives, and to have everlasting life. Then by all means take them to church.

are all the churches available at the time the kids would meet? It is a convenient, safe location, supervised by a faculty member. It is non denominational so kids of different faiths can go. what is the down side?
Can those bitching provide a better alternative and do the work that VOLUNTEERS are going to do?


I am sure that no church would pass up the chance to mold young christian minds.
I do not oppose the right to practise religious beliefs, but I am a firm believer in the separation of church and state.
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous...


“The truth is, everyone is going to end up hurting you. You just have to find the ones who are worth suffering for.”

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2008, 11:00:06 PM »
Religion is a business and its always looking for new customers.

Offline OLDigahmah

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2008, 12:09:06 AM »
The seperation of church and state was for the purpose of keeping the state out of the church's business, not the other way.  People get that wrong all the time.  Remember they came here to get religious freedom, they did not want the state telling them what religion they had to practice.  If my daughter was staying after school for any reason, she would have to have my permission because I would have to go pick her up.  I'm sure the parents of the kids that are staying support their children in this club.

Offline littlebit

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2008, 01:10:24 AM »
The following is a famous passage from Everson vs. Board of Education (1947; Justice Black writing for the court):


The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa.
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous...


“The truth is, everyone is going to end up hurting you. You just have to find the ones who are worth suffering for.”

Offline littlebit

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2008, 01:23:00 AM »
The seperation of church and state was for the purpose of keeping the state out of the church's business, not the other way.  People get that wrong all the time.  Remember they came here to get religious freedom, they did not want the state telling them what religion they had to practice.
What is the separation of church and state? That is a very good question — the separation of church and state is perhaps one of the most misunderstood, misrepresented and maligned concepts in today’s political, legal and religious debates. Everyone has an opinion, but unfortunately, many of those opinions are woefully misinformed.

The separation of church and state is not only misunderstood, it is also exceedingly important. That is probably one of the few points on which everyone on all sides of the debate can readily agree upon — their reasons for agreeing may differ, but they do concur that the separation of church and state is one of the key constitutional principles in American history.

Understanding the separation of church and state is complicated by the fact that we are using such a simplified phrase.

There is, after all, no single “church.” There are many religious organizations in the United States taking different names — church, synagogue, temple, Kingdom Hall and more. There are also many corporate bodies that do not adopt such religious titles but which are nevertheless controlled by religious organizations — for example, Catholic hospitals.
Also, there is no single “state.” Instead, there are multiple levels of government at the federal, state, regional and local level. There is also a great variety of government organizations — commissions, departments, agencies and more. These can all have different levels of involvement and different relationships with the aforementioned religious organizations.

This is important because it underscores the fact that, in the “separation of church and state,” we cannot be talking about a single, literal church and a single, literal state. Those terms are metaphors, meant to point to something larger. The “church” should be construed as any organized religious body with its doctrines/dogmas and “state” should be construed as any governmental body, any government-run organization or any government-sponsored event.

Thus, a more accurate phrase than “separation of church and state” might be something like “separation of organized religion and civil authority,” because religious and civil authorities are not and should not be invested in the same people or organizations. In practice, this means that civil authority cannot dictate to or control organized religious bodies. The state cannot tell religious bodies what to preach, how to preach or when to preach. Civil authority must exercise a “hands off” approach, neither helping nor hindering religion.

Separation of church and state is a two-way street. It isn’t just about restricting what the government can do with religion, but also what religious bodies can do with the government. Religious groups cannot dictate to or control the government. They cannot cause the government to adopt their particular doctrines as policy for everyone, they cannot cause the government to restrict other groups, etc.

The biggest threat to religious freedom is not the government — or at least, not the government acting alone. We very rarely have a situation where secular government officials act to repress any particular religion or religion in general. More common are private religious organizations acting through the government by having their own doctrines and beliefs codified into law or policy.

Thus, the separation of church and state ensures that private citizens, when acting in the role of some government official, cannot have any aspect of their private religious beliefs imposed upon others. School teachers cannot promote their religion to other people’s children. Local officials cannot require certain religious beliefs on the part of government employees. Government leaders cannot make members of other religions feel like they are unwanted or are second-class citizens by using their position to promote particular religious beliefs.

This requires moral self-restraint on government officials, and even to a degree on private citizens — a self-restraint which is necessary for a religiously pluralistic society to survive without descending into religious civil war. It ensures that the government remains the government of all citizens, not the government of one denomination or one religious tradition. It ensures that political divisions not be drawn along religious lines, with Protestants battling Catholics or Christians battling Muslims for “their share” of the public purse.

The separation of church and state a key constitutional liberty which protects the American public from tyranny. It protects all people from the religious tyranny of any one religious group or tradition and it protects all people from a government intent on tyrannizing some or any religious groups.

Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous...


“The truth is, everyone is going to end up hurting you. You just have to find the ones who are worth suffering for.”

Offline fish

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2008, 01:34:36 AM »
What started it all:
Mr. President
To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.
http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html
The government is not to establish a national religion nor restrict the practice of one's CHOSEN religion.
The church group being held at the school is constituitional. It is not being sponsored by the gov't, but by citizens exercising their right to assemble and practice a chosen religion.
 

Offline littlebit

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2008, 01:43:44 AM »
If it is being held in a facility built by the government using taxpayer monies, be that federal, state, or local it is in fact sponsoring said religion.
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous...


“The truth is, everyone is going to end up hurting you. You just have to find the ones who are worth suffering for.”

Offline fish

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2008, 01:54:24 AM »
I wouldn't think so. there are taxpayers choosing to use the building and taxpayers choosing not to assemble at the building. The taxpayers sponsered the activity, not the government.

Offline littlebit

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2008, 02:05:13 AM »
What is the problem with having these bible studies held in a church?
Are there congregation members that do not want them there?
It is obvious that there are taxpayers who do not want it in the schools.
So, why be so persistent in the matter?
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous...


“The truth is, everyone is going to end up hurting you. You just have to find the ones who are worth suffering for.”

Offline OLDigahmah

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2008, 02:14:34 AM »
i think it is probably something the kids can do after school, transportation wouldn't be a problem and they can be at the school till working moms and dads can pick them up.  It is a service to the parents believe it or not.  If it was at a church they would have to find transportation to the church after school when a lot of parents would be at work.

Offline OLDigahmah

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2008, 02:15:30 AM »
I don't think the taxpayers at Laquey are protesting.  I think they want it. I believe it has already been approved.  Good for them.

Offline fish

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2008, 02:29:27 AM »
as I stated before(#11), it is conveniently located. the kids are already there. the parents would know about it and have to give permission so they could attend. It is non denominational so all the church's would not have to be open at the time after school. How would the kids be transported to a church, and which one? It is also obvious taxpayers want it at the school. It is a wholesome activity, it is a safe location, supervised by faculty and volunteers. again, it is a choice. no one is being forced to go or not.

Offline ♣♥Young & Foolish♥♣

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2008, 02:29:45 AM »
Are you condoning the teaching of religion to children without their parent's permission? Is this not a choice to be made by the parents?
It is not the responsibility of the school, church, or day care to instill morals and values in our children... Ultimately it is up to the parents. If you want your child to have Christ in his or her lives, and to have everlasting life. Then by all means take them to church.
I think the parents should know, but if the child feels they want to explore it even though the parents dont go to church then i dont see anything wrong with it. I think it is sad that any religion has to be banned from school, even praying has become wrong..what is happening with our world when our children are frowned upon for praying at the lunch table or wanting to be part of a bible class that is held after school? Very sad.

shadylane

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2008, 09:56:16 AM »
I don't think the taxpayers at Laquey are protesting.  I think they want it. I believe it has already been approved.  Good for them.

There has been "tax payers" protesting the separation of church since 1776 so this argument is not logical. If we go down the slippery slope of religion then we will spend all of the schools money on law suits instead of education. Which religion will we allow to use our schools to access our children? If we allow one then what about the others? Next we will have TV Evangelist asking for money at recess.
PS I'm proud to be the only person with a negitive karma rating.

Offline fish

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2008, 03:13:24 PM »
the bible group is meeting after school. The bible would not be part of the daily cuuriculum.
is there a block on report cards about citizenship? There used to be. kids were graded on behavior along with the other subjects.
The kids going to the bible group are not forced to be there.
Yes parents are supposed to teach morals,that isn't the point of the group. Been to wal mart in the evening lately?
You could say church's are tax supported, they get exempt from many taxes. who pays the taxes they don't.
How could a school get sued for voluntary activities after school? This is just following the thoughts of margaret meade. it is all based on choice,which we are supposed to have.
A big deal about something that threatens no one, but is redicuously blown out of proportion by some against it

MBRwife

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2008, 03:14:00 AM »
Hey Dig, you're in the middle of the "Bible Belt"!!!!  We're called that for a reason.  We're hear to stay.  We've seen you come and go for years, blab, blab, blab; move to one of the coasts if you want it fair. It's not fair here.  We love our Christianity in the Midwest.  Gripe all you want about it being fair or not; it is what it is.  Don't like it?  Leave.  We're not going to change.

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2008, 03:29:19 AM »
Yes, this is the Bible Belt... however... all that is changing... and soon people here will be forced to either evolve with the rest of the country or their generation will simply die-off and be remembered for nothing but prejudice and backward ideals.

Things like this are prime examples of the old trying to prolong their existence through their youth.

Hey Dig, you're in the middle of the "Bible Belt"!!!!  We're called that for a reason.  We're hear to stay.  We've seen you come and go for years, blab, blab, blab; move to one of the coasts if you want it fair. It's not fair here.  We love our Christianity in the Midwest.  Gripe all you want about it being fair or not; it is what it is.  Don't like it?  Leave.  We're not going to change.

Offline Digital Narcosis

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Re: Kids’ Bible club planned for Laquey School
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2008, 03:32:49 AM »
As I have already stated above...

Would those in this thread who are for this activity after school be offended or pissy if there were another group to come in and offer an alternative group for children... an Islamic group maybe...  Or a Wicca based study group?